Ama86 Wrote:What parade have I pissed on? I've called out no players, I've made no demands. Judging by the poll in question, a majority appears to feel the same way I do, and while I didn't expect some kind of democratic outcome, I'm relieved to find that I'm not the only one who was dissatisfied with the nature and frequency of these events. It seems I'm not some lone wolf sabotaging something everyone loves.

Hi, I'm Amatsuka.  I think you called me out randomly in the prior post.  So I don't have a lot to say, but bear with me because you snipping at me seems to be a reoccurring trend.  I don't dislike you.  I don't want to fight with you.  I do, however, think that you need to be considerate of viewpoints other than your own.

In your posts, you want to know what's wrong with criticizing the event while it's still under way.  The explanation for that is a bit lower, but it's really not what prompted me to make this post.  What's important is that you think your opinion has a right to exist and it's okay to share.  Which is fine.  Consider please that my opinion also has the right to exist.

I have not tried to silence your opinion.  I haven't even targeted it to explain why or even if I disagree with it.  I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings.  Why do you feel the need to try to invalidate mine? I accept that you've been frustrated. I accept your experience.

I have a lot of opinions and I'll happily share them with basically whoever whats to hear them.  It's one thing I'm very seldom shy about.  I think sharing dreams and ideas is a lot of fun even when I sometimes feel like it is my role to point out flaws with them.   This isn't even one of those situations.

I don't need anyone to try to superimpose feelings on me or use me as a punching bag.  If you want to dislike me, at least dislike me for something I actually believe or do.  I am not, as a rule,  spiteful.  I am not, as a rule, passive aggressive.  If you don't understand a view I have, I will gladly explain it until you are very tired of hearing about it.  If you were to accuse me of being aggressive, I would not overly protest except to explain that I am generally and try to be passionate in everything I do.  I am not at all passive aggressive though.  I make a point of tackling issues head on because I feel that it is a very honest way of living and I like to consider myself a very honest person.

adjective: passive-aggressive

   of or denoting a type of behavior or personality characterized by indirect resistance to the demands of others and an avoidance of direct confrontation, as in procrastinating, pouting, or misplacing important materials.

If anything, you can accuse me of being too confrontational.  I try to balance staying engaged and not being too confrontational all the time.  Sometimes I fail, but I'm always available to clear up any kind of misunderstanding.  I like to be understood and I don't want there to be hard feelings between me and any other player if I can help it.  If you want to debate an idea or argue with me about something, that's okay.  Let's keep it friendly.  Please don't try to fight me personally though.  Nothing is ever personal with me and I think of all of you are as my dear (internet) friends.  I don't do personal fights.

So please don't try to paint or dumb me down.  You don't have to take me seriously all the time.  Honestly, most of the time, you would be best served by attaching a :3 at the end of anything I say.  That doesn't mean I don't mean what I say in jokes, but that I want everyone to relax and laugh too.  I'm a very fun loving person who laughs and jokes a lot.

I like music and I like art.  I like funny little memes and things too.  I use them to treat a topic lightly and express my opinion, but I'm not disregarding your feelings.  I'm not attacking you.  I'm trying to have fun even when it no longer seems to be in the cards.

The expression, "this is why we can't have nice things" was not specifically directed at you, but at the idea that we can't get through an event without some kind of controversy.  There are a lot of things I'm dissatisfied with.  I'm always trying to come up with new ideas to fix problems I see in the game.  OOC is full of me going off on random stuff or asking people what they think about something I came up with.  Sometimes I petition ideas.  Sometimes I make threads about them.  I like to think that it's always good to try to solve problems (though I like to stay away from things that are too oriented on criticizing specifically-- it mostly hurts feelings and doesn't fix anything).  There's just a time and a place for it so that it doesn't affect the content creator's motivation.  We can always talk about what's good to do for next time and after everything is complete.  Half a week longer isn't going to see the destruction of the game.

The meme is also meant to express my frustration with being unable to see the event to its conclusion.  I just didn't want to make anyone feel super bad about it (like anyone cares if Amatsuka is having fun, amirite?) so I didn't immediately go into detail about how I set time aside next week for the end or that I've been super busy all week and basically haven't done anything with it yet(because I'm a super busy person).  So I've been telling myself secretly that I still have time to play since this one was longer and maybe I could convince someone to scene with me a little.  Just because I feel bad, I'm not trying to make you feel bad about it.  I just want you to understand that it was important to me. 

Like Briar posted in the other locked thread, I had taken this end date for granted.  I think it's natural and should be understandable that we would be disappointed.

This is my heart.  Please accept it.
i don't have a dog in this fight and i didn't read this post but amatsuka when u suggest that blood bonds should be same sex did u forget about the HOMOSEXUALS
Roisin ♥
I kind of forgot. I am shame.
Quote:I am not, as a rule,  spiteful.  I am not, as a rule, passive aggressive.  If you don't understand a view I have, I will gladly explain it until you are very tired of hearing about it.  If you were to accuse me of being aggressive, I would not overly protest except to explain that I am generally and try to be passionate in everything I do.  I am not at all passive aggressive though.  I make a point of tackling issues head on because I feel that it is a very honest way of living and I like to consider myself a very honest person.

I don't find you honest at all. Just like, since we're putting it all on the table, I think you're one of the more dishonest players in the game.

I am honest. For better or worse, you'll generally know exactly what I think of you, without bias. Like you, I've participated in the big Discord for a time, and I'm sure that those there can attest that regardless of how much anyone tries to express approval of me, put me on a pedestal or be my friend, if I think ill of them as a person I'll be pretty blunt about it. This has not at all won me a lot of friends in Haven or in life. I am not at all political or diplomatically strategic in the bonds I forge and the bridges I burn. I find the opposite is true of you.

I don't at all consider you confrontational or aggressive. On the whole, you are 'nice'. On the whole, I am not, which is probably why we don't get along. We are anathema. I do however find you to be subversive, illusory, equivocal, spiteful and passive aggressive.

You know, the lying, or rather, 'misleading', I don't mind at all that much. It's kinda normal, even healthy to lie. It's human and often sympathetic. Many times in life if someone wants to pry about something that isn't any of their business, it's perfectly acceptable to lie just to shut them up. Like for instance when celebrities lie in interviews about whether or not they're dating someone, I don't blame them for wanting to keep their private life private. Or if an employer requests information they aren't legally allowed to ask their employees about, and HR seems kind of sketch, I feel comfortable just saying 'no' and moving on.

The intellectual dishonesty though, that I mind. That's the worst kind of dishonesty. It's the kind of dishonesty that makes a person not able to have a conversation with you.

If I know for a fact that you're in support of x, don't lie and act like you're a neutral party who's genuinely interested in the pros and cons of y. Don't concern troll.

If I know for a fact that you hold certain biases for/against a person for whatever reason, don't play dumb and innocent when that person, or the people affected by the bias, observe(s) that your actions aren't impersonal or objective.

If your biases are obvious, and regularly come into play, don't pretend like they don't affect you. There's no shame in having biases. It's human. There is some shame in pretending you're something more than human.

If I know that you know more than you're letting on about a subject, don't act like you're approaching it with naive eyes and a fresh perspective. The forum says you joined in October 2013. No one buys that you're a clueless, unopinionated newbie asking questions because you genuinely need help.

If you don't like what someone else is saying for whatever reason, don't erect a straw-man or false dichotomies to defeat in place of their actual argument. Don't try and twist that person's words to discredit it. If your perspective has merit, you should have the confidence to present your argument honestly and dismantle their stance with the honest truth as you see it.

If you're entering a discussion with a motive, don't hide it. If you want people to take you seriously, and most importantly, at face-value, be direct. Say 'I agree/disagree, here's why.' Or 'I don't like that you're attacking x, here's why'.

And if, for whatever reason, you can't bear to be honest about your beliefs or intentions, and must instead resort to underhanded tactics to get any mileage out of them, perhaps it's time to examine those beliefs and intentions instead.

"Our pain is the mirror in which we can see the reflection of our humanity."
Make a difference.
[OOC] dev: 'when kes says ur goin 2 hard, u know u need 2 rethink ur life choices'
This is "About To Pass Out After A Night of Gratuitious Revelry Sanni".  I've probably known Amatsuka, a least peripherally, since
.. 2008? 2012. In any case, I read this post. Like, 4 times. And the drunken optimistic in me really hopes this is her being sincere, and actually baring her soul. And if that's the case, I see you.  I've had good (but weird) scenes with you. And I can grok what you're putting down.
"You see I believe in freedom. Not many people do, although they will of course protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.”
Amatsuka, I don't believe I have ever made a post/thread where you haven't bluntly shut down whatever I said. It's like clockwork. 100% of the time that I post anything, you're there like a hawk to essentially say "I completely disagree on every front." Every time. I've been watching this happen for years. I cannot make a post on this forum without you swooping in to be contrary. I'm not the only person you do this to by any means, because you are contrarian to a fault, but I think I'm the only one who has a 100% track record. You're always there. Every single time I start a discussion or participate in one, it's immediately followed by you going "everything you said is wrong." And here we are again. Everything I said is, apparently, wrong. Like always. Don't talk to me about recurring trends. [Rule breach edit: intimating alts]

It gets to the point where I don't think you just happen to have a different view on things. I think you go around looking for people's opinions and then contrive to hold the opposite view just to be contrary. I don't notice a consistent set of viewpoints from you, I just sense contrarianism and a certain strange entitlement--I quite doubt anyone else would get away with making an actual thread just to lambast one player.

I don't believe you when you say that you don't have anything against me. How could I believe that? I snipe at you because you've hounded me down since I started playing Haven, time and time again, shooting down every opinion I've ever voiced and following me around like this. Like this right here. [Rule breach edit: Intimating alts]

And passive-aggressive. Yes. "This is why we can't have nice things" is passive-aggressive. It's also the least of your faults, so I don't know why you're so defensive about that one. You're also a toxic, hostile, disingenuous person, but you're experienced enough at these things to to obfuscate it a little and cling to some kind of plausible deniability. You're an internet bully and this is a prime example: a vendetta campaign on the back of a single offhanded remark about your passive-aggressive memes. Who makes a whole multi-paragraph thread to "reciprocate" a four-word quip, really? And who else would have been allowed to do so here?

For long stretches of time, I didn't post on this forum precisely because of you. You've made me sigh and shake my head in annoyance literally every time I do, and here we are again, on public trial for mentioning in passing that your memes are passive aggressive. You're not "honest" or "opinionated," you're a toxic element, and you do your thing in this vaguely narcissistic way, under the pretense of sincerity, like you've done right here, which is even worse than simply being told "fuck you" by some blowhard.

So, adios. I resign from this farce of a forum. You can enjoy your sandbox without me. Say what you will about my criticisms, but I'll point out that I was the only one who voiced the concern that I had, and then a poll proved that it happened to be the majority opinion. I believe that says something about the culture of this forum, about the environment you've helped shape and how unhealthy that is for a game. Not that I expect you to agree with that, or anything else that I could ever think to say. You've frantically disagreed with absolutely everything I've ever said, and now you'll act like I'm the one who confronted you because that's the kind of disingenuous person that you are.
I'm not sure 16:14 is a majority opinion. It's a whole player's vote from being an equal split. Sure, it's enough to win but from the sound of things, if that poll had lasted a couple of hours longer it would have been flipped to the other side.
So literally, I wrote that entire post so that you might understand that I wasn't targeting you. Not because I had to or there was any reason I'd need to in order to gain something from it. I just wanted you to know how I felt. Literally, you would look no worse if you were like, oh, I guess I misunderstood you if you're telling the truth or something. Let's try to communicate better in the future.

Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them the enemy. It doesn't mean they hate or dislike you. I didn't target you for a trial or want you to feel bad. I wanted you to understand that I didn't mean to upset you. I've always been surprised that you've sniped at me.

Kestrel, no. Kestrel long ago decided I was the enemy because I don't agree with a lot of her agenda and she thinks I'm an obstacle. I still wouldn't even dislike Kestrel except that she seems to be unable to understand the same concept and has taken to attacking me. I can still get along with people when we disagree. I think it's important not to take a disagreement personally.

So I thought I'd give it my best try. There's nothing I can do to change that though if everything I try to communicate is disregarded as lying. Literally, what am I supposed to say to clear up a misunderstanding?

By the way, the threads title, reciprocity, is in reference to being able to share opinions without demonizing each other. It's a very basic level of respect for each other.
During the Sanctuary Raincoat Game (which did not take place on the grid, and was not forced on any players who didn't want to participate, which appears to be what Ama86 is), I was dissatisfied. I did not enjoy the RCG, and I found myself not wanting to continue it. So I didn't; instead of ruining the fun of everyone else, I privately asked Daed to put me back on the grid and let everyone else have their fun.

Now, Daed doesn't need any of us to defend him, but as someone who views Daed very positively as a story creator/writer, I'm very disappointed in anyone who criticized the games while they were still in play. He was excited about the games, like he's excited about the Metaplot, and to openly shit on the excitement that both he and players felt because you yourself (and a few others who agreed, I personally didn't but wasn't able to vote because I didn't realize there was something polarizing to vote on until it was closed) weren't enjoying it.

I understand this point of view. Sometimes, I don't enjoy the roleplay that others create that goes on around me. Those are days when I don't participate; I don't go to events I don't think I would enjoy, and I leave early if I find I've stopped enjoying it. I call out things I dislike, and perhaps I shouldn't, because it's rude. It's flat out rude to rain on someone's parade like that.

I don't know you, Ama86, but I was disappointed, like Amatsuka was and like Quartz was, and SubtleBeast, and anyone else who was enjoying the games. I was relying on having a few more days to continue playing, but because people upset Daed, we lost that chance -- and who knows if he'll want to do other things for us later.

Also, "majority opinion" isn't correct. It was the majority opinion of people who constantly check the forums and were able to vote. Which, again, some of us are not/were not able to do. Further, I'm not saying that Amatsuka is not disingenuous or toxic (I don't know Amatsuka as a person, just over the OOC channel), but from the posts that I've seen you post lately, you come off as equally toxic. Considering I have a long history of having toxicity as part of my being, I would consider that other people view you that way and take a more zen approach at life.

This is just a game. Everyone deserves to have their fun and have their characters grow and be affected by interesting things.
I play evil things. You get over it eventually.
Erwin Rommel Wrote:“One must not judge everyone in the world by his qualities as a soldier: otherwise we should have no civilization.”
Well, I finally see the point everyone's been making, and I feel like a dumbass. I now realize I was being a shitbag for criticizing the Games while they were still going on, and for voting for them to end early, especially since my viewpoint was so skewed as a new player. Shamefully, I think I was just experiencing some obnoxious "I'm a newbie, so my experience and perspective is sooo important!" type entitlement. I'd only started a few days before, so the RCG was extremely jarring for me, and I didn't really know what was going on. I felt myself growing apathetic and disinterested, and having to force myself to keep playing just so I wouldn't lose my momentum and quit playing (as tends to happen to me when I stop playing a MUD for a week or so) and I was sad because I had been enjoying myself so much before they started. I just wanted to go back to developing my character's story. But that's not an excuse. It's not all about me, and my status as a total newbie makes me less qualified to speak on the RCG, not more.

So even though you guys don't know me, I wanted to officially apologize for selfishly making it all about me and for voting for the Saturday end. It wasn't fair to Daed, it wasn't fair for the players who were enjoying District 1, and it certainly wasn't fair to anyone who cleared up their Halloween evening to witness the end of the Games. Daed went out of his way to give my character a personal death scene even though I'd contributed to ending his plans and fun early. I really didn't deserve that. I guess I just didn't really think about it from the perspective you all have offered. I just thought that Halloween seemed like a long way away and I just wanted to play Haven, which I hadn't gotten the chance to properly do. So...yeah. I really am sorry. Next time I'll keep my mouth shut and let people have their fun, and if I don't, feel free to ungently remind me of what I said here.

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