Psst... Crayon
#11
Quote:ThraceThraceThraceThrace
[Image: latest?cb=20130901181122]
[Image: Stay-Thirsty-Meme-copy2.jpg]
#12
Sorry, my saltiness this morning got the better of me with my previous post so I should probably clarify that my original post had more to do with the way we handle schemes on Haven and less to do with trying to shame an entire society for being bad. Don't get me wrong, I think they made mistakes, and I don't think that the people involved have learned or grown from them at all, but at the end of the day, our RP culture comes from the top down. When a behavior pattern like retaliating against schemers with griefing, ganking, etc., gets dignified in an ATS thread, it's going to happen. It's hard to blame the players that do it. You can tell them that it's not fun, that it's bad for the game, that it makes you not want to play, and that it certainly makes you want to avoid them, but that's about all you can do -- that's not going to be enough to convince some people that they shouldn't do it, because it's been greenlit by a staff member as desirable behavior.

So to that extent, I do apologize to Aquietghost, etc., for the tone of my post earlier. I don't really care for the DMZ as a discussion ground because it brings out my natural instinct to be a giant, trolling, scathing, toxic asshole, and that's not really good for anybody. So instead of continuing to be belligerent, I'll just make some suggestions:

1) If your natural instinct when confronted with some sort of antagonism is to ICly retaliate to the greatest and griefiest extent possible, eg., ganking, draining, stealing and trashing expensive items, etc., then you should probably start by both asking yourself why you think you need to push things that far and whether that's any fun for anybody but yourself. If the answer to the former question is because it's maximally mechanically beneficial to victimize, drain, steal the watch of, etc., every victim that you get your hands on, first post to the forums pointing that out, then consider sacrificing that personal gain in favor of what makes for a more fun story for both yourself and your victim. If the answer is something else... it should probably be better than saying it was the most IC thing for you to do. In a story-centric game, you should try to have what makes for the best story trump what you think is most IC for your character as often as possible.

2) If the majority of your antagonism is coming in the form of retaliation to other peoples' antagonism, you should consider drawing back and focusing on proactive antagonism rather than reactive. Reactionary antagonism is the worst kind, especially for horror, and it's almost never fun for anybody involved. It's almost always better to not respond, unless you have a creative, engaging, and fun, story-centric response in mind, and to instead focus on external antagonism directed at people you want to RP with.

3) If a victim seems unhappy with something you're doing, or has not had fun through your antagonism, you shouldn't get defensive. If you think they're being a bad victim, you should try to utilize other avenues of approach to find something that gets them to 'be good'. Really, there are a lot fewer 'bad victims' than people say, and most of the time it's an antagonist not knowing how to read the room, research, escalate, or get to know their victim properly. There are a few who won't be happy no matter what. They're few and far between, and you'll know them when you've got them. You want your victim to communicate with you, because that makes it easier for you to tailor your antagonism and maximize enjoyment.

4) Slow your roll. Lay off the ham. Learn how to slow boil your antagonism, your horror, and your mystery. Ganking, draining, and torturing is not the only way to antagonize or build an antagonistic relationship in Haven. You can antagonize people without using combat, schemes, rituals, or imprints a single time. You can antagonize people just by emoting at them. Make use of it. Learn it, live it, love it. Save the ham for operations when at all possible. Nobody wants to get branded, clubbed unconscious and tortured, etc., on the first date. Work your way up to the big stuff.

5) If you're going to respond, respond in kind. Instead of looking at antagonism from other sources as an attack that you need to retaliate against and discourage at all costs, players should look at it as an invitation to embark onto an ideally mutually beneficial journey riddled with lots of fun back-and-forth. Most of the time, the response to that invitation, is to club the inviter over the head and immediately violate them on the spot. Let things build slowly. If somebody pokes at you with some schemes, poke back. Participate in thwarts. Communicate. Don't be afraid to use tells, especially for SR stuff like schemes. If a scheme seems focused on arcane RP, or mystery RP, engage with it through arcane-centric RP, or focus on the mystery or the research -- don't try to brute force it. Some people just don't like anal, so maybe don't try to slip it in the back on night one. If brute force is the only thing in your character's repertoire, you can totally feign ignorance and let it ride, allowing a more suitable character to take the lead later on.

Players should be antagonizing each other much the same way that they RP with their friends. By showing respect, giving the benefit of the doubt, and making a real, serious effort to have fun and create something that vaguely resembles a story. Often, the mechanics in the game will conflict with this. They will incentivize maximal retaliation, instant gratification. They will tell us that it's okay to do it if you want to, even if it's kind of the furthest thing from fun. They will suggest that all of our antagonism utilize pre-fashioned paths established through mechanics and heavily rewarded through in-game cash, villainy points, life force, and bragging rights. Ignore them. Use the tools when applicable, but don't let them confine your play to the maximally-rewarding, least-interesting avenue possible. We have to combat this by having open, candid, empathetic discussion with our peers and opening ourselves up to the idea that hey, maybe we can improve, and that hey, maybe we all make mistakes.

For my part in souring discussion previously, I do sincerely apologize. That diminishes any hope Haven has of ever reaching the point where we can openly discuss what we enjoy or don't about roleplay and how we can all be better antagonists of each other.

While I generally dislike the DMZ, and am sympathetic to SubtleBeast's displeasure, why don't we try to be adults about it from here on in, and drop the attacks back and forth? I can understand why Aquietghost might feel attacked by the initial post, but let's just try to take it as an expression of what SubtleBeast hasn't enjoyed. Daed wants us all to be excellent to each other, and while I'm a scathing, raging troll, maybe we should give it a try just this once, in the DMZ of all places?
"The day our glorious collective decides that being decent is as important as being competent (as they often go hand in hand), I'm sure several people will decide that the forums are suddenly a much more welcoming place to share ideas." - Dev
#13
I want to take a cue from Crayon and apologize for even making this thread. I've been really trying to not vent OOCly but I lost my temper. It doesn't justify it.
#14
SubtleBeast Wrote:Also thanks for the compliments to Olly, I've been trying to play him better than I played Lou, so it sounds like I may be making some progress there, I'll just keep working on it.

I didn't ever play with Lou aside from him PKing me while I was AFK once but I feel like it's safe to say Olly is a better character or that you're playing him better at least. My only constructive criticism is that he doesn't have any emotional vulnerability to edge into as an RP partner which makes interacting with him a lot like throwing yourself against a wall to no avail (only at times) -- This could also be a "I've been a vampire for 20XX years and seen everything so nothing really affects me" thing which I can understand, but it's still hard to write with.

Crayon Wrote:I'm also kind of a weirdo who goes out of his way to put in extra effort with people he doesn't get along with or has a bad opinion of in the hopes of having that opinion changed or improving things, right up about until they piss me off.

Then how come u neva rp with me boI
#15
UsCrayon Wrote:Dude usually puts in the effort when you give him a chance, he's just a little bit comedically thirsty. Same with RRK.

I appreciate that you know I put effort. Which I always do. However the 'comedically thirsty' I would like to challenge that.

Johnny Moore,

Written to be a thirsty 'playah', written to fuck any girl that would let him. He only fucked two girls, and the second was his girlfriend, Laura, which I worked very hard to maintain said relationship even through Johnny's cons. I got metagamed, Laura's player stopped trusting me, I rostered Johnny. I was surprised also to see that my roleplay was respected as Johnny continued to be with Laura even if it was on and off.

Billy Moore,

The Daddy of Thirsty, Johnny has nothing compared to big daddy Billy. But guess what. Instead of fucking left and right (though he did have some experiences out of being with one person but that didn't last long) I tried pursuing a relationship with Tori and only with her. Next Billy broke up with her, not my fault.

Lazarus Gold,

Well this kid was under your employment. How many girls did he have? One main girlfriend after attempting a serious relationship -twice-.

Vance De Santis
Married to Alyssa de Santis and never did anything with any other women?

Ethan Inigo (2.5),
Incubus. As it stands one of the OOC players who played Claudio or whatever his name was, had his house completely rigged and bugged. I didn't even know. So what did he aee in his cams? Ethan with Templar Werewolf Layla? Oh and he never used Seduction for sex or Claudio would have known that because my house was rigged. Funny I got beat up for that too. So weird. Guess people hated me back then.

Vincent
Gianna. Nuff said. That's one can I don't want to touch.

It's really funny because my most sex stat was provably 10-20 and usually with the same woman. While others in OOC boasted of their triple digit Sex score and Thousands of sex emotes.

So then, how am I comedically thirsty if pretty much every character got into a relationship and -stayed- in said relationship. Damn that's some weird accusation.
#16
The level of success you did or didn't have is not the same as the number of thirst attempts you made. ;-)

THAT SAID

When you aren't out of your mind on drugs you're usually a good scene participant.
#17
(04-12-2018, 08:09 AM)Leah Wrote: The level of success you did or didn't have is not the same as the number of thirst attempts you made. ;-)

THAT SAID

When you aren't out of your mind on drugs you're usually a good scene participant.

Appreciated.

Well I -am- roleplaying guys, which is easy because I am one. Tell me which guy -doesn't- think about getting into a woman's pants? Must be some Saint or most assuredly a liar. However my point is that I have attempted to go for serious relationships. Rather then fuck left and right versus -those- who are truly 'playahs', who had most certainly the sex numbers to boast and are in -game- men sluts hat fuck left and right (notice I said game). Tongue

So basically I'm a little bitch compared to them and their all so powerful sex stats and sex emote stats Wink
#18
(04-12-2018, 08:23 AM)Thrace Wrote:
(04-12-2018, 08:09 AM)Leah Wrote: The level of success you did or didn't have is not the same as the number of thirst attempts you made. ;-)

THAT SAID

When you aren't out of your mind on drugs you're usually a good scene participant.

Appreciated.

Well I -am- roleplaying guys, which is easy because I am one. Tell me which guy -doesn't- think about getting into a woman's pants? Must be some Saint or most assuredly a liar. However my point is that I have attempted to go for serious relationships. Rather then fuck left and right versus -those- who are truly 'playahs', who had most certainly the sex numbers to boast and are in -game- men sluts hat fuck left and right (notice I said game). Tongue

So basically I'm a little bitch compared to them and their all so powerful sex stats and sex emote stats Wink

I hope Harvey Weinstein is writing this down, I bet this defence will serve him well in court.

"Our pain is the mirror in which we can see the reflection of our humanity."
Make a difference.
[OOC] dev: 'when kes says ur goin 2 hard, u know u need 2 rethink ur life choices'
#19
lul
#20
Hi. We're not doing this. I don't want to see any screen caps, references, or links to chatrooms or other forums.

I literally removed this suspension less than 24 hours ago and am already regretting it. If you suspect something may get you banned, please apply some common sense instead of disrespect.

Do. Not. Post. It.

I also do not want to see screenshots of tells or any other information which was provided privately.

Locked.


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)