New Players and Old: Death & You!

[Stitch]

Or is on a really long delay.

[Erlkonig]

I go to my doctor’s appointment and come back to chaos, oh my lord.

First: I am sorry your character died. I honestly wasn’t expecting it; my character didn’t care, but I was also like “OK, wow, so we’re doing this right now.”

Second: Corpses might be weird. I feel like corpse scrying and stuff only occurs if the corpse was actually codedly buried, and it’s possible yours was not. I don’t otherwise know where it is.

Third: TROLLREPORT is for reporting trolls/shutting down abusive language on OOC. There is also the Ignore command, and now we have the lovely NOTELL command and NOTELL STRANGERS command (thank you, Nova), but Trollreport itself is not for turning someone off exclusively for you. It’s for if the person has crossed many lines and is now abusing multiple people or abusing an individual on OOC or Newbie. We are trusted to make that judgment for having the Community Credits, but please do not assume TrollReport is for trolls (or RG) exclusively.

Fourth: Violence happens. Please do not harass anyone OOC or in rude meta emotes if you are violented at. You can ask for FTB for any content that you find disturbing. It still happens to your character, but you do not have to RP it out.

It’s very hot out today and so I’m trying to keep my thing short because using my brain hurts right now. Killing people should not be our go-to, even if it’s entirely in-character to do so! Say it with me: Killing people should not be our go-to even if it’s entirely in-character to do so. Unless this character has performed the same general stuff a few times, please consider alternative response: more fighting, victimization that leaves them alive, negotiations, etc.

Now, if someone is jumping into these situations constantly, kill them, sure. Whatever. But the moment someone dies, the story ends. Is this sometimes necessary? Absolutely, it can be very valuable to have someone die! It can also make people go “Oh. You kill people, huh? I’m not sure I want to play this game with you beyond Coffee Shop simulator.” After all, if you kill one character, what stops you from killing another one eventually? Escalation is a huge issue that we’ve always had to deal with in Haven, and it’s one that causes us to get cagey and awkward.

This may also vary by organization. Some are more violent than others. For instance, the Temple is more militaristic and thus, may be more prone to handling supernaturals with violence. The Hand are corporate; we have violence day-to-day, but the Hand is also probably more concerned about people coming in and edging into their global pie fingers, you know?

Just my six cents.

Stay hydrated.

[Crayon]

It turns out that when you’re, a: the type of person who thinks that staking somebody is an appropriate response to accidental friendly fire but that getting murdered isn’t an appropriate response to repeated obnoxious and hostile retaliations, b: can’t find anybody but your good OOC friends with equally skewed and biased understandings of escalation and appropriateness to back you up and res you, c: are the type of person to post a myopic rage rant about IC events on an OOC forum due to mad cuz dead, your character is going to have a short shelf life. Whodathunk.

[Luka]

You’re not helping Crayon, this situation is genuinely a shitty one and people are allowed to be upset.

There were genuine bad actors at play here, and I’m very eager to not see H7 fall to the same kind of OOC group meta wars that previous itterations have fallen to. Kaiser is, as usual, not producing his issues in productive ways, but there is behavior going on here that deserves to be called out.

[Crayon]

Have you considered that the bad actors at play were you all along? As somebody who had to, tangentially, investigate all angles of this clusterfuck IC, it’s being wildly mischaracterized by Kaiser, and by you, and it’s a pretty clear-cut case of people fucking around and finding out and then trying to lean on OOC cliques to back up their scuffed RE knockoff characters. I’m sorry that you’re struggling to res your OOC friend and obvious IC ideological enemy, with magic, on your werewolf. It sucks that those rituals are bugged. That’s the only concession this shitpile of drama posts gets.

[Luka]

I have considered that, yes. I’m not. One side is killing PCs with no story being told, and the other side is telling stories and not trying to kill PCs. I’ve done my research, you should do yours better.

[bean]

dear reader, a word to the wise:
1. he who cries first, hardest and loudest, is not always rightest
2. he who loses and fails most, is not always the aggressed, nor the victim

often, a temperamental propensity for aggression & the lack of foresight/discernment needed to succeed go hand in hand

take this wisdom, apply it to any ooc drama you witness on this game, or the world at large, from this day forth. do not instinctively pity the first or loudest to whine. some of you are way too easy to emotionally manipulate

love,
legume

[Luka]

You’re not wrong at all in any of what you’re saying there but I have actually assessed the situation and come to the right conclusion here. I’ve not been emotionally manipulated and I don’t like the implication that I would have been. I’m not saying Kaiser was agressed on because he was crying, I’m saying he was agressed on for having his character killed in a super lame way using behavior I think we should all be able to agree doesn’t have a place in the game. Character deaths should be the result of well told stories, and they should never happen with zero RP. That is something everyone playing this game should be able to agree on.

[Erlkonig]

As someone who had no stake in this, and did no investigation, all I heard IC was that Individual A was staked by Individual B and Individual C did try to keep Individual A alive. My character was like “Oh dear, why does the Temple go around staking humans, that’s so crazy.”

What the reality of the situation is becomes slightly moot. Yes, the drama should not have been brought to the forums so blatantly. Yes, we should not be blasting anyone OOC about their characters, etc.

I still stand that death should not really be something we go to. I did know that Individual B, Kaiser’s Character, was kind of aggressive — but I wasn’t really bothered by this sort of aggression, because we see it all the time. Even staking someone, if you know they’re a vampire, is generally fine and if it was genuinely an accident, and no death was had by Character A, then you should not die for the staking.

Now, if A had died, then sure. Kill B, that’s reciprocal. But a staking of A and a death of B is a bit dramatic. I don’t think there were bad actors; I think there were people who need to realize that Death is not a solution for nearly anything.

[Crayola]

First, please let me start off by saying that I have nothing but compassion and empathy for the situation that you’re in, Kaiser. If the roles were reversed, I know I would be mad as hell and writing petitions and praying up to Nova every time I saw him doing a copyover until I got a resolution.

I’m not quite sure what to make of finding IC events being drawn out here on the forums, nor that you chose to alt-reveal me. Since you’ve already chosen to do this, there’s really nothing I can do about it other than to deal with the anxiety and upset that comes with it, and keep pushing peace.

I stand nothing to gain from being disingenuous and manipulating the narrative to the events that occurred. I’ve never character assassinated, maliciously spread misinformation, or anything of the sort to hurt another player. I won’t start now.

I have played Haven since its inception, on and off, over the years. Not once in all that time have I dealt with a situation like this before. I’m always a graceful victim, even when it really stresses me out to be at the mercy of someone I can’t trust, and usually keep it IC even when I’m in tears behind the screen.

I was the first on the scene to the big game hunt, followed by you. I’m not a combat veteran, so there’s a lot about fight-related mechanics and the way arcane abilities work that were misunderstood. While that’s an OOC mistake, I have no problem with the consequences for making the wrong choice IC because shit happens.

I was using leadership commands to try and support you while you were in combat, where my first aid to you was to ask if my use of leadership abilities was helping you, which I had been doing for the last 2-3 turns.

When you signaled you were going down, I thought using double Leon large lava crawler would help you out since the intention was to continue sacrificing my attack with leadership.

Seen here:

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
[1N]Leon says “Might be going down, Whaling Park”

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
[1N]Large lava crawler ignites his fist and throws a punch at Leon, it impacts against his black tactical kevlar vest.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
[1N]Leon fires off a shot at large lava crawler which completely misses him.

laststand @me asks, “Can you catch your breath?”
Arachne helps you make a last stand.
Arachne asks, “Can you catch your breath?” (Laststand)

[170/213DF 2ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
Leon moves to 10,22: Distance 24

[170/213DF 2ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)] tell leon Does that help you?
tell leon Does that help you?
They aren’t here or you cannot send them a tell.

[170/213DF 2ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
You can use an ability again.

[170/213DF 2ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)] aid Leon Does that help you?
aid Leon Does that help you?
You aid Leon by telling him OOCly ‘Does that help you?’

[170/213DF 2ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)] l
l
Whaling Park
The area is quite dark.

The public park spreads across gently rolling terrain where native
wildflowers bloom in patches between stands of ancient oak and maple trees.
Stone benches carved from local fieldstone display faint fossil impressions
of shells and ferns pressed into their surfaces. Gravel paths wind between
areas where the grass grows thick and green, leading past a small pond where
cattails cluster along the muddy edges. Children’s voices carry across the
open spaces as they play near wooden playground equipment constructed from
massive timber beams, the wood weathered to a silver-grey patina. The late
spring air holds the warmth of approaching summer, and somewhere beyond the
tree line, the pale outline of weathered stone structures rises against the
northern hillside. A few families have spread blankets on the grass for
afternoon picnics, while joggers follow the perimeter path that curves around
the park’s natural boundaries.

It is afternoon, about 66F(18C) degrees, and the sky is covered by dark
grey stormclouds. In the distance behind and to the left of you the sun
hangs in the sky. Ahead of you is Whaling Park. Far off in front and to the
right of you you can just make out the uppermost branches of an enormous tree
rising above the cityscape. in front and to the left of you you can see a
worn stone castle perched atop a rise.

[ northwest north northeast up ]
[ west southwest south southeast east ]

(Me) Arachne shooting at large lava crawler (X:0 Y:0 D:1)
(la) large lava crawler fighting Leon (X:10 Y:18 D:20)
(Le) Leon fighting large lava crawler (X:10 Y:22 D:24)
(so) some cover (X:21 Y:47 D:51)
(s6) some cover (X:78 Y:36 D:85)
(s5) some cover (X:19 Y:98 D:99)
(s9) some cover (X:62 Y:84 D:104)
(s2) some cover (X:129 Y:42 D:135)
(s3) some cover (X:40 Y:137 D:142)
(s7) some cover (X:129 Y:73 D:148)
(s8) some cover (X:76 Y:137 D:156)
(s4) some cover (X:110 Y:145 D:182)

[170/213DF 2ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)] attack crawler
attack crawler
Command stacked.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
[1N]Leon looks like he already caught his second wind.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
large lava crawler charges to 10,22: Distance 24
[1N]Large lava crawler ignites his fist and throws a punch at Leon, it strikes his armor with bruising force.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
[1N]Leon launches a stab at large lava crawler, it severely wounds his left arm.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)] double leon crawler
double leon crawler
Runes on your petite gold wristwatch shimmer with prismatic light.
You double Leon with large lava crawler.
[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (N 0/50:37/50)]
You can attack again.
You fire off a shot at Leon which strikes his armor with bruising force.
[Pistols reduces defenses by 7, balance by 0]

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (N 0/50:37/50)] attack leon
attack leon
Command stacked.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (N 0/50:37/50)] say Friendly fire not intended!
say Friendly fire not intended!
You say, in velvet sweet mormorio with a New England accent, “Friendly fire
not intended!”
170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (N 0/50:37/50)]
[1N]Leon says “Hunter, Arachne is trying to kill me along with the monster.”

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (N 0/50:37/50)] say I said it wasn’t intended!
say I said it wasn’t intended!
.
You say, in velvet sweet mormorio with a New England accent, “I said it
wasn’t intended!”
Connie charges to -70,30: Distance 76

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (N 0/50:37/50)] You cannot use that channel.
[1N-2W](Connie knocks Leon out.)
[1N-2W]Connie fires off a shot at Leon which mildly wounds his right arm.

TL;DR I tried to de-escalate and explain to Connie that I wasn’t trying to kill him. Connie, reasonably, said she was only going by what was reported. Connie starts shooting me, I manage to down the lava monster, start attack skipping because I wasn’t trying to do anything to Leon. Connie continues, knocks me out. Sucks, but shit happens man.

Log of my wakeup:

You wake up.

Connie is standing here.

Leon is standing here.

Connie lifts a Petrine cross from her cleavage and speaks into it.

Connie says “No mist at Whaling Park. Corpse is Arachne’s kill, Leon’s
severely injured, Arachne’s tied up.”

Connie lifts a Petrine cross from her cleavage and speaks into it.

Connie says “Up to you lot what to do about it.”

Arachne comes to, apparently tied up, and exhausted. “Can someone please
explain why I’m tied up?”

Connie says “Because I got an emergency call from Leon about you attacking him
at a hunt at Whaling Park.”

Leon stands to his feet reaches inside his jacket and withdraws a wooden stake,
spinning it round and round, until shoving it right through Arachne’s
chest.

Leon gets a robust wooden stake from a drab green tactical knife sheath.

Connie says “Holy fuck.”

Leon plunges his a robust wooden stake into Arachne’s heart.

You suffer a critical wound!

You feel the world fading away as you bleed.

[OOC] Crayola: ‘Okay, I’m definitely going to need to breathe and take five.’

Leon presses two fingers to his left earlobe and speaks in a militaristic and measured tone.

Leon says “She staked for now. ”

Connie lifts a Petrine cross from her cleavage and speaks into it.

Connie says “Leon just fucking staked her so I’m, uh, getting on my horse
and fucking love.”

Connie lifts a Petrine cross from her cleavage and speaks into it.

Connie says “Fucking off, mind.”

Connie waves.

Connie walks away and to the right.

Leon grabs ahold of you.

Arachne gets immediately bleeds blood as she’s staked in a beating heart.

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him

Leon confidently strides to the right.
Leon drags you with him
On High Street

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him

At High and Washington

You feel the world fading away as you bleed.

You get onto Leon’s a Lightning LS-218 and head towards Church Street.
Leon’s vehicle is sabotaged.
You have an accident.
Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Leon confidently strides away from you.

Leon lets go of you.

aid Leon Uhm.
You aid Leon by telling him OOCly ‘Uhm.’

[1S]Leon confidently strides away from you.

[2S]Leon says something.

2S]Leon confidently strides towards you.

Leon confidently strides in from in front of you.

Leon presses two fingers to his left earlobe and speaks in a militaristic and measured tone.

Leon says “Archne is north of Thornberry and Prospect. ”

You aid Leon by telling him OOCly ‘You know what, never mind. I’m just not going to bring this OOC because I’m extremely confused and trying to figure out what’s happening.’

Leon finds a place to hide himself.

(Hidden) Leon is standing here.

You feel the world fading away as you bleed.

aid Leon At the very least, could you please provide me with meaningful roleplay as this is happening?
You aid Leon by telling him OOCly ‘At the very least, could you please provide me with meaningful roleplay as this is happening?’

You feel the world fading away as you bleed.

[A few more minutes roll by, it’s just comms chatter nobody needs to see.]

Leon grabs ahold of you.

You feel the world fading away as you bleed.

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
At Thornberry and Prospect

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Jakem’s Den of Wonder Grand Opening is starting now.

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Leon gets a samnsung galaxy A36 cell phone from his bomber style brown leather jacket with a white faux fur collar pocket.

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Leon’s samnsung galaxy A36 cell phone beeps.

emote makes a strangled noise low in her throat, blood steadily trickling down her mouth.
Arachne makes a strangled noise low in her throat, blood steadily trickling
down her mouth.

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
On Prospect Avenue

Leon presses two fingers to his left earlobe and speaks in a militaristic and measured tone.

Leon says “Stop 143”

Leon confidently strides away from you.
Leon drags you with him
At King and Prospect

Leon presses two fingers to his left earlobe and speaks in a militaristic and measured tone.

Leon says “King and Prospect”

Leon confidently strides past you on your left.

You feel the world fading away as you bleed.

[This is the end, where people ICly found me and rescued me.]

The only thing I said, which was a long while after I’d been in the hospital and calmed down, was:

[OOC] Crayola: ‘Leon, I know your ass is on here. Please, kindly, just give roleplay to people. I’m cool with the smoke and what comes. But, RP. This isn’t a hack ‘n slash.’

Was this in good taste? No, it was not. I was extremely frustrated, confused, and crushed that this was what was happening. I regret sending you those aids to ask that you emote with me, if this was where the story was going, so that I could at least have some roleplay because I wasn’t sure what your intentions were.

After that night, I have been on record saying ICly that I was content with what characters chose to do in retribution while I was in a critical condition and unable to advocate for myself as a character. I never pursued you, came after you, or did anything to escalate any violence after that. It was not narratively worth engaging and it made me sick with anxiety and worry for how I was perceived moving forward.

The next time I encounter Leon, you’re in an entourage with aggressive and frantic characters who suddenly barreled into my LLM. I was wary, but kept everything IC and I have nothing but love for those players. I finish my LLM patrol, all while watching escalation happening at the intersection, and responded accordingly.

The aggressor was already in hostile when I came to try to de-escalate and talk things down. Sadly, a fight broke out. I called for back up because, at that point, I wasn’t sure how things were going to go. You were tied up, bound, and gagged by someone else. I immediately took you back for questioning about IC matters. I made a point to roleplay with you and try to be even-keeled and not use anything unnecessary to interrogate your PC for what they were doing. I even took that chance to try and clear the air, and it seemed we did. So, I chose to sublimate you to my faction and set you free.

You chose, for some reason,

[Crayola]

— Apologies for having to continue into a second post. The forums don’t like it when you click out, then back in. After you were sublimated to the Hand, you immediately chose to go pursue breaking into another character’s house not even 5 minutes after I dropped you off outside your faction base. As you said in your original post, you did so because you wanted to escalate in retribution for being caught up in someone else’s fight that you were backing.

I’m sorry that your death was not given proper roleplay that it should’ve deserved. I’m sorry that the revival system is not panning out how it should. I don’t hold ill-will toward you. I hope that the situation is resolved to your satisfaction and wish you the best.

Arachne/Crayola

[MojoJojo]

This is, as I feared, the reality of things.

Overescalated over jumping to conclusions. Went instantly for a PK. Cries bloody wolf when repercussions come. Twists the narrative to play victim. This doesn’t warrant your own PC’s death, but it sure does explain why people did not give you much credit when you were, in turn, victimized.

You saw her telling you it was unintended. You saw her literally supporting you with laststand. You instantly csay to get your buddies behind you. You instantly stake. You instantly capture them and jog off. Talk about disrespectful RP.

Here we have some of the exact reasons why I was and am skeptical of getting rid of sanctuary. I can’t help but agree with Crayon’s input, too. In fact, I recall how I caught you walking into/off mist tiles when we were both in the mist, and had like 5+ rats/fungi/etc. spawn on me. You got pulled into the fight and made for the warehouse to leave me to get slain. Called you out ICly, but you didnt hear it, and responded all ‘What?!’ when I went ‘The fuck?’ through Aid. Bad sportsmanship all around.

[Kaiser]

Don’t use AID to bypass OOC consent, don’t demonize someone as not “rping” just because a situation gets tense, don’t assume the worse.

Don’t use OOC chat in game to miss-characterize strangers as, “bad faith” and, “playing the game like a hack and slash.”

Don’t call someone scuffed and bad because they use clear influences, this is a video game, not an original piece of art.

Don’t use the forums, especially when someone is being ambiguous to begin with to then demagogue, and think appeals to majority somehow isn’t a fallacy, while being a sophist about it.

Why would you think I’d let any of you just have the first and last word?

Bean you are a troll, you veil your targeting with indirect jabs which invites others to speculate while denying you are escalating the situation. You take a patronizing tone, as if you see the truth and no one else can, while gaslighting and framing my self-defense as manipulative, which then further tries to cast doubt on anyone who would support my stance. You use sophistry like you’re some intellectual stoic while trying to paint me as emotionally unstable, all the while trying to act like you aren’t some instigator, from the very begging, while topping it off with signature smugness.

Crayon as usual you deride through a mocking tone, while shifting blame, not acknowledging the context why a PC was staked all to suit your condensing narrative of, “mad cuz dead, scuffed re knockoff characters, and whodathunk.” Really, I’m the one being bias while you accuse me of cronyism? Then you try to act like you are extending an olive branch with a faux concession? Man Crayon, same old clown, same old bozo outfit.

Crayola, I allowed your BS to die the moment the stake entered Leon’s chest. It’s you and yours who continue this shitshow.

[Kaiser]

Really, Mojo, you want to drag your nonsense into this?

I didn’t instantly go for a PK, I thought I was staking a Vampire, stakes don’t PK Vampires, they paralyze them.

Mojo, you kept pulling me into a fight when I was trying to use the restroom. I had to use the restroom something fierce. I couldn’t exactly articulate that cause everytime I tried to flee you kept pulling me out of stealth. I ran in the warehouse to despawn and to use hide, and to not use be in the mists. You aren’t the victim here. If fought a good 10 minutes, before I just tried to run away, I was “tile” baiting mist monsters. Wtf is with Haven? Is this your default? To demonize first?

I “clearly” saw? No, I didn’t, on both accounts, and you didn’t even elaborate what the issue was in AID, which is why I said “what?” It’s a question, not an acquisition you absolute bell end.

[Kaiser]

“and to not be in the mists.”*

“I wasn’t tile baiting.”*

[Author]

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