New Players and Old: Death & You!

[MojoJojo]

type ‘say Gotta dip,,’
Solved.

This miracle fix scientists will hate you for knowing about costs a whole two seconds.

As per the other issue, a little bit of communication could have prevented it all. But that seems like a difficult concept for you to grasp.

[Kaiser]

Omg, I can’t win with you. I had to use the restroom. Usually someone using hide is enough of indicator to slow down. Next time if I see you in the mists I’ll spam wait, stop, don’t do that, let me get away from you, because every time I did try to break off or respond you instantly pulled me back into another fight, once the fight was over, I used hide again, and before I could fire anything else off another damn fight broke off.

Stop painting this like I had a leisurely minute to explain my situation, while trying to hold back the flood gates and a turtle head.

It seems like you can’t stop insulting anyone for a second the moment you think you’re the wronged party.

[Kaiser]

If you recall I was pulled into your fight from my motorcylce driving passed the area and not into it. I wasn’t their to farm.

[MojoJojo]

You had minutes to participate in the fight. You had minutes to walk back to the warehouse. You didn’t have two seconds to type.

Make it make sense.

Don’t know how me, standing still to type an emote after the fight, which I was trying to do after the first two combats, is me actively pulling you into new fights.

Make it make sense.

[Kaiser]

When a fight breaks out after every HIDE attempt I’m not focusing on typing, “Chill” I’m focusing on ending the fight so we don’t both end up rag dolled and turned into monster kittle. Make it make sense how you don’t understand that combat usually eats up a lot of attention.

[MojoJojo]

You have 15-45 second windows between attack/move firing. You can queue sprintss/move up to basically double that window. It takes two seconds to type ‘Gotta dip’. It’s that fucking simple.

[Kaiser]

Brother, moving, looking at the map, seeing what needs to die next, verifying where I’m on the grid, trying to fight back the utter pain of having to use the restroom, and you constantly mob spawning, maybe just back off and stop acting like the wounded animal?

[MojoJojo]

What are you on about now? You said yourself you chose to run from the fight because of needin to go to the toilet

Visible door: east

Why are you pretending you need to pinpoint some exact coordinates on the grid you have to walk to? You look east. You spam sprint. This is easy enough to then have the time to quickly type out a ‘say Gotta dip’. You were sprinting that way eventually, when you randomly decided to leave me with the four mobs that spawned. I didn’t spawn them. You were the one frantically moving around. During, and after, combats. Even if it wasn’t you who is spawning them is irrelevant to begin with.

I get it. You, again, are unable to reflect on anything. You are never wrong and are never at fault, in your head. If you want to pretend running away from a few mushroom men is so intense in combat, that you somehow forget you simply need to move one tile to the east to disengage fully and that’s the only direction you have to look at and sprint into, and that it renders you unable to do something as simple as fire off twelve characters for some caveman level interaction/communication.. I don’t think you should be doing combat to begin with.

It’s almost funny that your rant and false narrative here ended with ‘if only RPed’. And yet you, in both cases, demonstrate complete inability to do something as basic as communication.

This reflects perfectly why your behaviour around the monster hunt is all your fault, too. There was communication. You couldn’t seem to register it. You instantly went on the defensive -and- offensive. You escalated instantly. You get called out for it. You cry conspiracy and come up with excuse this or excuse that when the core issue is you acted unsportsmanlike, which in turn reflects real bad on you.

Go have a sandwaich. Reflect.

[Matias]

I feel like we’re in a scenario very much like before where possibly the same person is unable to accept a group feedback about their concerns/issues.

I’ll grant you it’s concerning the corpse scry and summon or whatever isn’t intuitively working and the charon coins aren’t.

But it seems very probable that you would simply be executed again because you are unable to see why you were executed in the first place.

[MojoJojo]

Forget the whole specifics of the combat. Look at the situation. There’s crapton of monsters. Someone else is there, fighting with you. Spawns seem rampant. You need to get out. You have two choices:

1) Quietly sprint off
2) Suggest sprinting off

One of these actions will come with the TellTale Games famous ‘Everyone will remember that.’. Most of us know which one is generally the right one to pick. The incident with the staking falls into similar lines.

You are fighting a dangerous monster together. You nearly fell, were supported by your ally, and then hit once by this ally who instantly called out it was accidental. What do you do:

1) You shrug it off, or talk it out and with it after the fight.
2) You use this an excuse to cripple them after the fight right away.

No matter what kind of false narrative you want to set, or how you want to paint out the others in this situation, or what excuses you have, just admit the choice you made is horrible. And the fact this response was still made days, days later, time plenty to have reflected on it, highlights a way greater issue.

I’m done.

[Dobbs]

Nothing says, “I keep it IC” like coming to the forums and posting logs, alt-outing people and violating all sorts of OOC rules in the process.

I commend you for proving that you’re only in it for the roleplay.

[Stitch]

I want to offer my perspective as someone who is not part of any cliques. First, the level of aggression on the forums really needs to come down. There is no reason for forum bans to potentially be getting doled out this early. We can disagree without making it personal.

Kaiser, I understand that losing your character is frustrating. You and Crayola are right to raise the issue about Corpse Scrying and Corpse Summoning not working as intended, as most of us would be petitioning too if we lost our PCs. But continuing to post long, emotionally charged messages on OOC is not helping your case. It is more likely to result in losing forum and OOC channel access and turning people away who might otherwise support your concern. I share the concern that death right now feels out of control with Sanctuary gone, and I do think more restrictions or safeguards should be in place within the new systems. That said, in the instance I know of that led to your death, the player who killed you had been griefed by the character you were assisting, with little or no RP. It is understandable they assumed you were involved in similar behavior given your PC’s previous actions on grid and reacted accordingly.

I am also wondering why you went straight for a stake when you could’ve bound or captured in any other way. Earlier in the iteration, you offered one to my character, and I remember thinking, “why are we presumably killing vampires so early?” You have played long enough to know that staking was previously not possible through Sanctuary, and you know how hostile that action is and what a large escalation that is, vampire or no. Arachne stated the damage that she did to Leon was accidental. She went out of her way to help you through Leadership and other means of support. That escalation on your end for an accident was severe. Worse, my character was dragged into a conflict under false pretenses. I showed up to RP and de-escalate, only to get ambushed due to a bug and Court people started calling for war and executions in the hospital to all of us. I suspect some of those players were new, so I will not name or shame. But it killed any interest I had in engaging with the Court, because it felt like some characters were looking for any excuse to go after the Temple and dogpile when most of us were not involved and trying to take a proper RP means of addressing what happened. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, but that experience stuck with me, and I have kept distance since from most people in the Court.

It also did not help that once your character left the hospital, you immediately started engaging any suspected Court members, and suddenly I had 7-8 characters hitting up my character’s phone spamming me to intervene. I do not have much game time, and I did not sign up to spend it acting as a janitor for your character’s actions again after being so thoroughly disillusioned not less than two days prior. I eventually had to make an OOC post, something I rarely do, asking not to be involved so I could enjoy other parts of the game.

This iteration of Haven is clearly built around cold war-esque tension, as per Nova’s direct word. That means long-term planning, quiet retaliation, abductions, RP fights, and subtle hostility. Your character has Hunter focus even. That kit is tailor made to hit people when they least expect it in their own homes, hack them, pick them off when they’re alone, isolate folks, etc.. There were so many better ways to handle the situation without jumping to mechanically initiating attacks with anyone on the grid your PC suspected of being Court. If I had been playing someone like Leon, I would have waited for a better moment. Target a Court member in their home when their guard is down, hit them when they are not on alert less than two days after Arachne got staked, hack their phones, black bag and interrogate them, predator patrol Court folks, do schemes. Basically, there were so many options that you ignored instead of just trying to jump straight into mechanical combat the -minute- your PC was out of the hospital. Any one of the previous means I mentioned would’ve also indirectly told other characters that you’re presumably leveraging other means of conflict that won’t likely potentially result in the deaths or critical injuries of their characters.

What drove some Temple players away, including myself, was the constant perceived aggression from your PC. What frustrated me personally was being criticized by characters outside the Temple, particularly ones DIAMETRICALLY opposed to the Temple, for not supporting that aggression. I was told I was not doing enough to help recover your character, even though I spent a lot of time manually searching for your PC’s corpse. To be blunt, the reason people are pushing back on your behavior is because it comes across like wounded player pride. Even if you did not ask others to escalate, it still feels that way to many of us based on perception. You are not the only one frustrated, but the way this is being handled is making it harder to support you. I agree with some of your points on bugs being frustrating, as well not everyone playing in good faith, but you’re not selling your points well.

[Stitch]

I’ve said this a few times this thread, but I’ll reiterate it again: you need to be prepared for your characters to lose. To be interrogated or tortured, or just generally for bad things to happen to them. Not every conflict needs to turn into organization vs organization, especially if the person wronged is lower on the totem pole. Why would the Hand go DEFCON 1 over an intern being kidnapped, for example? If you’re beaten up and just interrogated? Fine. Lick your wounds, remember who did it, plan your long-term revenge, hit them when their guard is down. I am incredibly suspect at some of the potential meta communications that happen when someone is abducted, to a point where I think the scouts message on people being abducted by non-mists monsters should either be removed or delayed to make it very clear when meta communication is playing a factor in miraculously finding someone abducted.

[MojoJojo]

I second that suggestion.

[LiteBrite]

In a tangentially related way that might end one moment of stress: combat in H7 does not require movement. I’ve stood in one spot and ended up umpteen carcasses deep because they just keep coming after your DF regenerates, unless you’re butchering or someone else is messing up the flow.

So MJ, it’s possible that Leon wasn’t the reason stuff kept spawning on you.

That’s all I have! Hope it helps ease some pain.

[Author]

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