New Players and Old: Death & You!

[MojoJojo]

I’m fully aware of that. Doesn’t mean you can’t communicate a desire to disengage together real quick. It reflects better on you doing that than running away in the middle of an active fight, leaving a single PC to tank several mobs. There was about 10 minutes of combat in there, between some of the spawns. There’s plenty of time there to drop a quick, short say.

Bailing without a word come off as grief-y, just leaving another PC tangled up in a mob swarm you are in alone vs several mobs with Snares as you burst out and away and close the door behind you — no ranged fire support, (again) no ‘over here!’ or ‘lets bail!’ comms, nada.

I also could have escalated this ICly. But I didn’t. Another example of a player choice to make in a heat-in-the-moment encounter. This would not have warranted arranging some deathsquad on him, staking him, ritualbombing him. I think it just highlights another example of some sort of disconnect; How he cannot fathom his actions in the staking were in any way repercussions, how he cannot grasp the concept of some basic communication before going on the full selfish route…

[LiteBrite]

StitchParticipantJune 24, 2025 at 3:59 pm
The first thing I’d add to help this regard? Messages on a faction member getting abducted by non-mist monsters needs to be removed.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an abduction notice that wasn’t mists related. Do these exist?

[Kaiser]

This is just getting old and I’m constantly repeating myself:

@Mojo, you’re not getting any concedes from me especially with your spins and need to treat me like a nail to be hammered down and told how to play and how to properly react. You were constantly moving and constantly starting combat, despite what you recall or remember, and I had to use the restroom. Let’s say I was focused on other faculties and not how you think best I should have acted with your 20/20 hindsight. Maybe just say, “Hey in the future please throw out an IC, “Need to dip” so I OOCLy understand your intentions of needing to use the restroom. Thank you.” Instead of your 2 pages worth of slander. Maybe you can self reflect?

@Stitch Stacking a vampire doesn’t kill them, doesn’t lead to their death, not even a little, especially in New Haven, and as for the why? Leon thought Arachne was a vampire, I already stated this ad nauseum and not willing to acknowledge this at this point is just ignoring what has been written. I the player thought it’d be a cooler narrative “punch” than just KOing her outright. Severe’s do not kill in New Haven. The goal was never to maim or kill, so stop with this narrative. No one’s PC is in the grave but mine, and well a few others who are clearly being narratively bullied into literal PC death. All this demagoguery dressed up as moral superiority is rich.

My OG post didn’t name, names, didn’t call anyone out, and just advised others to not walk in my steps. Then Bean comes along and tries to lay it all at my feet, like I’m the irrational aggressor, and that isn’t going to fly. You don’t get to treat me like a nail, act like a hammer, while being condescending and demonizing and t think this is where the buck stops and I just need to concedes at every point because a flash mob decides it’s their turn to throw a peanut.

Am I supposed to glean and understand everything all at once with code flying? My log doesn’t show all the times I used MAP, Look, and all the other abilities I was doing to save Leon’s ass from being Lava bait. Sorry I didn’t understand in the moment Arachne intentions were “pure.” This has already been hashed out to death. Arachne codedly attacked Leon, I didn’t see a DOUBLE cast, and the only code I did notice was a Laststand, which I didn’t even know was code at the time, and thought she was telling me to use stubborn, which I already did. Afterwards I’m getting pot shot by her in the back, and Leon acts accordingly their after. I only knew magic was flying around after Icly a Templar told Leon.

I didn’t “immediately” start tracking down Court players. There is a 4 day gap from the 15th to the 19th, where I was the one antagonized again, by Arachne, while trying to hunt down a murderer. I was the one who was codedly victimized by her and 4 hand members. I didn’t raise hell in ooc. Please stop with this revisionist history like I’m the one strung out and starting shit. I’m not the one throwing snide opinions around on forums and in OOC chat and then acting like the wounded victim when the person I’m taking fat shits on defends themselves. I don’t know wtf you or any one gets to dress me down and think I just need to throw out a sorry and back down.

[MojoJojo]

There’s 1440 minutes in the day. The coincidence that your bowels decided to cripple you to the point of being unable to type communicating words out, and instead go in some Fight Or Flight where it only transmitted words of escape out to your hands THAT exact minute sounds rather suspect at worst, if not ridiculously coincidental at best. We can get into a game of ‘no u’ing this game of trying to pinpoint who causes the spawns all day.

And, dude. It’s Haven’s PvE. You don’t need to have a StarCraft player’s APM in it. I can literally play the PvE combat with one hand while on the phone at work. And no, this isn’t the standard, but don’t pretend that situation we were in was -so- APM-demanding you couldn’t squeeze out a few basic words.

Either way, that whole topic aside, you once again seem to have almost everyone telling you there’s many flaws in your reasoning, or your narrative of an escalated situation, and only try and divert the blame instead of owning up to anything.

Don’t pretend the original post was just some friendly advice, some pointers of how not to play. We’ve all long told you how none of us agree you ‘acted reasonably’ by:
– ignoring her apologies
– ignoring that she said it was accidental
– instantly calling the cavalry on her
– pretty much instantly staking her after it
– etc….

How do you consistently not know anything about combat, but seem to want to get knee-deep in it when it.. suits you? You don’t know this. You’re overwhelmed by that. You don’t know staking wounds its victim despite actively handing out stakes and knowing they even exist. You are overwhelmed with way too much MAP stuff for what is just simple PvE in a street. Real convenient of an excuse to just play clueless when it suits you.

Besides, you DID namedrop after just the one reply. Stop pretending Bean is now somehow to blame for this.

[Kaiser]

Also, I never blamed you, nor asked anyone to harass you codedly, verbally, or otherwise.

[Kaiser]

No I didn’t, she didn’t apologize.
No she didn’t, re-read. She never in AID or OOC elaborated she made some mistakes and was trying to rectify the situation with clarity: it was just snide passive-aggressive behavior, but sure spin-city.
Leon called the Calvary because a Hunt Monster was going to Critical Him and she was attacking him.
Not instantly stacking her. I emoted to Connie and then emoted staking her, not even remotely instant.

Go back to page 2, look at the part where she types “attack Leon.” Player mistake? If she says so, okay I’ll believe it.

Is this a joke? Their are some things I understand about combat, and others I don’t, let it die. 15 seconds isn’t long. Anyways.

[Kai]

Hey Kaiser.

It sucks the rituals and/or charon coins aren’t working. Those should be bug reported until they do work. I can understand your frustration.

I don’t love that you felt the need to drag IC stuff here, especially involving my character, but that’s done.

I don’t love that you didn’t get an RP’d death scene, as that would have been cool too.

That’s all. I kind of think this thread should stop unless it’s to post updates on if the ritual and/or coins become functional/work as they ought to.

[Crayon]

Stitch, for your part, it sounds like you did the best you could with a terribly shitty situation. It’s one of the most unenviable, un-fun positions you can wind up in in this game, and as best as I can tell you navigated it with grace and decorum. I’m sorry for any of the hate you got about it, whether it was from people bothered by Leon’s behavior or by his OOC friends who wanted him ressed.

[MojoJojo]

[170/213DF 2ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)] attack crawler
attack crawler
Command stacked.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
[1N]Leon looks like he already caught his second wind.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
large lava crawler charges to 10,22: Distance 24
[1N]Large lava crawler ignites his fist and throws a punch at Leon, it strikes his armor with bruising force.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)]
[1N]Leon launches a stab at large lava crawler, it severely wounds his left arm.

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (Ne 0/50:37/50)] double leon crawler
double leon crawler
Runes on your petite gold wristwatch shimmer with prismatic light.
You double Leon with large lava crawler.
[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (N 0/50:37/50)]
You can attack again.
You fire off a shot at Leon which strikes his armor with bruising force.
[Pistols reduces defenses by 7, balance by 0]

— Where did she fire ATTACK LEON? Or.. did she cast Double on the crawler and you in the wrong order, thus accidentally causing her queued up attack crawler to now hit the double’d you?

[MojoJojo]

You say, in velvet sweet mormorio with a New England accent, “Friendly fire
not intended!”
170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (N 0/50:37/50)]
[1N]Leon says “Hunter, Arachne is trying to kill me along with the monster.”

[170/213DF 0ST 0WN 0LG (N 0/50:37/50)] say I said it wasn’t intended!
say I said it wasn’t intended!
.
You say, in velvet sweet mormorio with a New England accent, “I said it
wasn’t intended!”

— Where did she not communicate it was an accident/unintended?

[Crayon]

Also she typed ‘attack Leon’ because she just used double.

[MojoJojo]

Yes. Exactly. She fired ‘attack Leon’ -afterwards- which would’ve targeted the crawler. She realized ‘attack crawler’ made her hit Leon, so swapped. Do you get this, Kaiser?

[Chiara]

I have no horse in this race, but I want to clarify a detail. To preface, I am a relative novice to Haven (I joined near the end of Haven 6), I may be wrong.

When Arachne used ‘double’, it created an illusion. Targeting the monster now instead targeted Leon; and as the monster was command-stacked to be attacked, Arachne automatically shot Leon by accident.

Double : Unspecified range; Pick two targets, for one round if anyone
attacks one they’ll instead target the other and vice-versa.
Roleplay : You can cause someone to temporarily confuse you with another
person.
Consumes your attack for one round.

It is afterward that Arachne course-corrects to ‘attack Leon’, which correctly targets the monster.

This is my understanding from having dealt with illusions from combat before, and this is all I wanted to clarify. Again, I could be totally wrong.

[Stitch]

@LiteBrite

They do, yes. You’ll generally get a notice via scouts if you’re around that the character has been abducted. I’ve seen people bust out rituals and phone traces the moment it happens.

[Luka]

How is this still a conversation after Crayola’s post?

Messing up and shooting someone in the back and then getting mischaracterized for it is an IC event, and it was handled ICly. A stake is certainly dramatic in that context but it’s well within the bounds of IC drama being dramatic. Crayola was happy to take it on the chin, and did with the most minor possible expression of OOC frustration, Kaiser was happy to take her revenge on the chin and did.

The issue being raised here, and that is very fucking clearly being put on display here by these five pages of OOC argument about whether or not the staking was justified or whether or not Kaiser was mist baiting people, is that certain parties have (Not Crayola, Crayola is an angel) taken this issue OOC to the point where Kaiser’s reputation was made so poor that someone felt justified in zero RP killing them because “Kaiser plays this game like a hack’n’slash MUD” became a prevailing narrative.

I’ve seen multiple people repeat this narrative to me, and it’s a narrative that spread far too quickly and far too far for it to have happened without some kind of OOC conversations happening about it.

Maybe there’s an argument to be made that whoever did the no RP kill is just a bad player and would have done the no RP kill anyway, but those kinds of OOC conversations and these kinds of forum threads are how you create environments in which people feel it’s justified to do things like no RP kills.

It’s really sad to me that Crayola set such a good example of maturity and how to handle these kinds of conflicts and everyone just fucking ignored it and went straight back to trying to make their arguments for why Kaiser deserves to be perma dead.

[Author]

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