New Players and Old: Death & You!

[MojoJojo]

Oh, quit it. It’s still a conversation because somebody couldn’t even properly read her logs and see that he was at fault. It took those five pages before he had to bring up how he still thought she purposely attacked him, when almost simultaneously four of us pointed out she did, in fact, not – and was, in fact, targeting the Doubled monster.

Nobody would’ve raised these issues up if the player in question wouldn’t turn to the forums for his mass ramblings, then be unable to take any feedback from it, and then still wonder why he’s not being treated like everyone’s bestie. This isn’t the first time we’ve had to sit through his ramblings on an exhausting forum post, or have him constantly deny this and deny that, sidetrack about this and sidetrack about that, all while seemingly being unable to take any criticism from it or see why what happened, happened.

I agree. There’s nothing that validates a no RP kill. That was a real dick move by whoever did it. It’s just plain disrespectful. But at this point, I really can’t act surprised anymore. Not given the player it targeted and.. well.. do I need to point anything else out anymore?

There comes a point where you need to stand in front of the mirror and ask the ugly question. ‘Am I the problem?’. This is starting to look a lot like a MOBA-gamer’s raging, every damn time. It’s always anyone else in the team, if not the entire team as a whole, which is at fault but no, not me. Lord forbid, not me. I don’t do anything wrong therefor it must be my team which is at fault. It’s mass conspiracy. It’s mass collusion. It’s cliques. It’s absolute grieving. It’s…

Do you get how this is getting old? The reputation isn’t ‘Kaiser plays it like a hack’n’slash’. The reputation is ‘Kaiser can’t take any feedback, he can’t accept any consequences, he can’t take any L, he can’t even take a piece of mild gossip without tables being flipped, yet plays as these gun-ho trigger-happy loose-cannons with more aggression than a hormonal pitbull we now have to deal with and lord forbid if we so much as respond to his hostilities..’ That’s the prevailing narrative, and it isn’t up to us to brush that off the table and sweep it under the rug. There’s someone else in the room who has to work and prove to the players around him that there’s positive change a-comin’.

[bean]

Bean you are a troll, you veil your targeting with indirect jabs which invites others to speculate while denying you are escalating the situation. You take a patronizing tone, as if you see the truth and no one else can, while gaslighting and framing my self-defense as manipulative, which then further tries to cast doubt on anyone who would support my stance. You use sophistry like you’re some intellectual stoic while trying to paint me as emotionally unstable, all the while trying to act like you aren’t some instigator, from the very begging, while topping it off with signature smugness.

did you just feed my posts to chatgpt and ask it to insult me

[Crayon]

I think there are some situations which may well validate a no-RP kill, like when dealing with relentless trolls and griefers who don’t put the same effort into griefing you that they expect when you PK them. There are some times where I regret going to the effort that I did to try to RP out troll slayings. Yeet and delete is respectable. Don’t want to get no-RP PK’d maybe don’t no-RP offline grief people, or try to avenge offline griefers, etc. This just reads like concern trolling to try to get people to treat characters with a dignity and respect that their players don’t afford anybody else.

[MojoJojo]

“This just reads like concern trolling to try to get people to treat characters with a dignity and respect that their players don’t afford anybody else.”

I can’t agree more with this. We, generally, treat one another rather nicely. There’s exceptions, and these exceptions have it coming.

[Luka]

Crayon encapsulates the point I’m trying to make here quite succinctly.

You’re coming at this from a lot of different angles and bringing up a lot of different things, but it all rings down to the same message, “Kaiser is a bad player and deserved what he got”.

I keep trying to tell you. The most likely reason someone thought it would be okay to no RP kill him is because you’ve been spreading this narrative that he’s this awful player who awful things are justified to be done towards.

The big issue here isn’t the staking, or the mist fuckery (Even though I’m sure those are issues also), the big issue is that you’ve stirred up such an OOC shitstorm that people are genuinely feel like Kaiser deserved what he got. This is not the case. An IC scuffle that ended up with someone staked, in which both players involved were happy to keep things IC and not take things OOC, is not the smoking gun you guys are claiming it to be. The staking did not deserve to be taken from IC to OOC, the no RP killing did.

Stop and reflect. this is not how a healthy community is created. This is YouTube drama levels of maturity. If you want to play in a non-toxic community where good will is common (and you do, everyone should want this), you need to lead the charge on showing that good will (Like Crayola did). That includes nodding your head and saying “Yes, bad things are bad” even when those bad things are happening to people you don’t like.

[Luka]

are genuinely feling like*

[Luka]

feeling* FUCK

[Maina]

A healthy community also doesn’t have people crashing out on the forums and name-dropping and openly name-calling. A healthy community would have had this thread locked and several people suspended or banned pages ago.

And people don’t need Crayon to tell them when someone is a bad actor. I interacted with OP all of twice and OP made it perfectly clear both times without anyone else having to step in and do it for him.

[Crayon]

Except I said absolutely nothing about the situation until AFTER he publicly tried to smear another player whom he’d already incredibly mistreated. So, no, sorry, your “actually people only think he’s bad because you’re telling everybody he’s bad” retronarrative falls flat. Crayola hasn’t been going around badmouthing him. Since the initial incident she’d said nothing about it, at least that I saw. The only person making Kaiser look bad besides himself are the OOC friends that have engaged in similar behavior and rallied to mutual defense.

[Kaiser]

This is rich, as always.

I don’t care about what commands she used, what commands she didn’t use, it’s all after the fact, and acting like I need to concede on that point she flubbed an input, what her true intentions were, why she did them, why she didn’t do them is moot. Me not understanding every bit of code does not make me some malicious actor. As if this somehow absolves anyone at any time for firing off code though is cute. The real kicker is it being used to justify why her RP is okay, but my RP isn’t, as if in that moment Leon should have bent over and just took her at her word and not the reality of the situation. Once again there is only one person’s PC in the grave, and the only ones mischaracterizing things are Mojojojo, Crayon, and Bean.

The moment my PC was attacked by her PC while a Hunt Patrol monster was about to Critical my PC all bets are off. I don’t need to rationalize Ic or Oocly why she did what she did or ask for her logs especially when she can’t be an adult and explain OOCly this isn’t some pysop or nefarious plan and was a genuine mistake, but instead throws out passive-aggressive comments while making nasty accusations about me in OOC chat.

I didn’t harass her in OOC, I didn’t make accusations of her being bad faith, a hack and slash player, or someone with mental issues (aka character assassination). I’m not the one who used AID to circumvent rule 2, to be passive-aggressive, accusing a stranger of needing to role play, and not articulating their issues with humility and brevity; you know what a socially rational human does. I’m not the one who came on the forums pointing fingers, chiding like some moral authority figure, while cherry picking Nova to suit my arguments, and then acting shocked that someone isn’t just bending over backwards to swallow the horseshit you all shovel. The projection is unreal, follow your own damn advice: look in the mirror and reflect.

You may want to seek professional help, especially holding grudges like this, making arm-chair analysis about strangers, while shit talking about them relentlessly in OOC chat and on the forums and then acting like you aren’t the guilty party is a neat party trick. Do you really think this is how you get someone to see your point of view?

Tell me again Mojo how I owe you my time and attention, and how the world dosen’t revolve around you, keep holding onto a moronic moment while labeling me a griefer because you were inconvenienced and weren’t able to be an adult and explain in Aid what your issues were, and thinking anything that doesn’t fit into your neat little paradigm is a lie, exaggeration, or just a convenient story. Here is the reality: you aren’t here to come to a term your here to demonize. You need to do better.

Tell me again Crayon how I’m a grieftwink crybully who plays knockoffs yet you can’t actually point out one actionable instance of me being unoriginal, and/or malicious oocly with nefarious plans to harm others. You’re just a hate monger, saying I can’t take an L, when all I did was take L’s gracefully. Your M.O hasn’t changed at all: still a clown, still a bozo who spins a tale and sells it as truth. Aka a liar. You need to do better.

Go on Bean, act like you aren’t absolutely a troll and need to think chatgpt is being used to defeat your sophistry. Ask chatgpt if it can’t help you round out your passive-aggressive insults, moral smugness, all tied up in a pretty little bow of invalidating reality, and how best to be a demagogue about a stranger you know nothing about yet spinning the story handed to you; the real quicker you do all this while continuing your troll hate train here and in the game. The only people who swallow your dog shit are suckers. You need to do better.

[Luka]

Someone was clearly spreading the narrative, Crayon. Whether it be on Discord servers or the OOC chat I don’t have access to, the fact that so many people seemed to have this opinion (Before this was posted) very much points in the direction of some bad actors having spread the narrative of Kaiser being a toxic player. I don’t think it was Crayola, Crayola seems to be mature, but I’m sure there might have been an ear or two who Crayola may have, in private, expressed frustrations towards the moment who then took that message and amplified it more than it needed to be amplified.

I don’t think there was any kind of Discord announcement channel “Guys, Leon is the ops, smear him at every opportunity” announcement, but I can very much see friends being upset on behalf of friends and making enough small, subtle comments that people eventually decide that he’s just a shitter who has no place in the game and it’s okay to grief him.

The reason these things are so hard to stop from creeping into a community is because they happen so naturally. Any slight towards a friend by someone who you’re not familiar with can escalate into … well, exactly what we’re seeing here, if people aren’t being careful about policing themselves.

I’ll keep saying it. It’s important to be able to nod your head and say “Yes, bad things are bad”, even when they happen to people you don’t like.

[Luka]

Kaiser you really aren’t you really helping yourself. You’re making it incredibly difficult for anyone to want to show you the goodwill you technically deserve but in practice are probably not going to get talking like that …

[Maina]

I’m not really sure why it’s being insisted that OOC collusion must be the reason here. It’s entirely possible (and indeed true!) that many people who roleplayed with him could (and have) come to the conclusion that he’s a bad actor entirely due to his own actions. It’s also entirely possible (and indeed true) that people ICly talked about how much the character was a problem.

And even if we entirely ignore everything that happened in-game, OP continues to prove they are a bad actor in this thread the more they insult other players and say things like “get professional help.”

Like, this is a pit he dug himself into entirely of his own volition. Some secret OOC conspiracy isn’t really required.

[Kaiser]

I’ve never RP’d with the vast majority of you, so you’re just making up shit now. Wait, so you went through the entire thread, read all the insults, accusations, demagoguery, and demonizing everyone threw my way, especially Mojo, Crayon, and Bean, and you came to the conclusion I’m a bad actor that is insulting others? Wow, go on, pick up that stone and cast it, you must be such a saint in your mind.

Tell me again how you aren’t biased. Nice shotgun tactics, I’m starting to recognize a lot of Hand and Court players in here now… hmmm, must be something-something bandwagon, something something shotgun tactics.

[MojoJojo]

Right. So now it doesn’t matter what she fired anymore, after we disproven your ‘well bruh look she fired Attack Leon wtf bruh’ isn’t a successful argument for your hostility.

It does make you a malicious actor. Because, instead of acknowledging you may have not understood what happened, you fully embraced the villain role and decided that, instead of showing patience, understanding, compassion, forgiveness, or anything of the sort, you chose violence. You think getting hit ONCE warrants staking someone, which could possibly have killed this PC because of your misinformed self. You think crippling a character for days, if not a whole week, is a valid response to this, when this same person was ACTIVELY telling you ICly that she did NOT intend to hit you.

She addressed it ICly. Not OOCly, which literally is against the rules, but now you’re trying to tell us that she should have just said ‘fuck the rules’ and told you via AIDs. A thing you, yourself, have also condemned her doing – Taking it OOC, which is genuinely rich coming off you.

I haven’t once claimed I deserve your time and attention. I told you all you could have done is take TWO SECONDS to type something out when you have to go. You are aware you can type ‘afk 10’ or ‘gtg 0’ and it’s less than ten keystrokes to do so, and communicates an obvious intent of having to go, on top of options to communicate ICly. This isn’t me, being high-and-mighty and expecting people to set aside their entire real life activities just to pamper me with attention. This is me, expecting people understand how some basic communication works.

I’m not sure why you feel entitled to having been explained the ‘entire’ situation, when you ran out and bailed on someone, leaving them to fend off 4 or 5 mobs alone. In fact, I’d rather not get into length AID discussions about in-game events when, instead, I can just walk off and go on with my day. Who is the entitled prick now?

At this point, I think we’re all well aware that no matter how much we argue, what points we raise, or what we use to try defuse your ticking-time-bomb aggression, you won’t take anything to heart. Everyone is against you, everything we say is bullshit, everybody only treats you like shit. Dude. I’ve had about four interactions with you across two iterations now, and excluding the one in the mist, they’ve all been horrendous. You’re hostile, you’re disrespectful, you play haughty, your characters are super difficult to even take seriously because of how overblown everything about them is, and you just can’t help but create these massive drama black holes over not being able to take an L, or learn from your mistakes, or accept you aren’t everyone’s favourite.

I don’t know anyone involved in this discussion. I play with none of them. I don’t communicate with anyone on here. I’m sure most of those involved can attest to this, and hell, me and Crayon have had quite a few disagreements in the past. This isn’t a smear campaign set out to destroy you by the community as a whole. This is you, jumping into the IKEA ball pit as a full-blown adult and WWE suplexing the kids out of the playing grounds only to then cry and complain when people show up to rough you up and move you out of the ball pit.

Look around you. The only times you’ve had people agreeing with you is when discussing the bugs. We all agree the corpse-related bugs should be fixed. We all (kind of) agree that PK should come with RP when warranted, unless it’s a real exception to the rule. But none of us agree with the idea that you aren’t trying to pin the blame on everyone else, that you aren’t constantly trying to shift the goalposts, or making up stories of grand conspiracy to victimize yourself when, in fact, you kind of got what you deserved (not the PK, I’m talking the arguments here).

You’re still talking about ‘someone spreading the narrative’ — You are aware most of us were also aware of this massive fuck-up of his, ICly, within minutes of it happening in-game? Arachne is a popular person, and for good reason, while Leon has barely any allies as we can attest to here. Nobody chose Leon’s side. Especially once details came through. ICly, this looks like the most unhinged bullshit a person could have pulled. OOCly? Well.. Pretty much the same, and you just proven you cannot even see this yourself. You still think your response was valid, that you were right to go ‘all bets are off’ over getting a single hit in. You think it’s fine YOU get to crit someone, but lord forbid you get critted, right? And you’re expecting sympathy, how? You’re expecting us to go ‘yeah always bail on everyone around you to save your own skin whenever you can’ and embrace it as proper player attitude. You should have rationalized what happened. You should have taken a moment to reflect on the situation. But no. You said it yourself. Just grab the guns and start blastin’.. Ridiculous.

[Author]

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