[Luka]

so much animosity*

[Luka]

@mojojojo

“And I getchu, Luka. I’m addressing other things other than my own issue after the run-in with Leon. Don’t see how this is killing my ability to engage peacefully with anyone else. Most of us are probably on the same boat – We think he’s someone you just do not interact with, you do not include, you do not seek out, and you just deal with him when needed. He still denies making any accusations first, when he’s been hostile and accusatory since the first post. He takesies-backsies his own arguments the second they’re debunked. This is not something we should just tolerate and stomach, shrug off and let be.”

This isn’t true, though. He’s fine to play with, so long as you don’t try to have a conversation with him when he’s on an unhinged rant and build up much animosity all other interactions with him are then fouled by it.

[Luka]

@mojojo Bit late, but since you asked I feel the way you’re lowering yourself down to Kaiser’s level is by engaging with the arguments at all.

Each time you reply to another one of Kaiser’s posts you’re making yourself marginally more frustrated, each time you restate your issues with him you’re magnifying those issues in your own mind by a slight margin.

The issue you two are discussing is not of note when placed next to something like RPless kills. There probably is some kind of discussion to be had around the staking, but because you two have been arguing about it so heatedly if’s been built up into something much more than it is.

Each time you take the bait and respond to Kaiser you’re feeding the drama. It’s fine to just say “This guy is in a bad mood, they’re going to be acting irationally for a bit, I’m going to let them do that over there whilst I do mine over here” and then bring it up later if it really is something so important to you that you feel it needs to be adressed.

You are actively killing your ability to engage peacefully with a part of your community in the future. You’re creating hard feelings within yourself towards Kaiser that are going to last much longer than this argument will last.

Please don’t feel like I’m singling you out here by the way, Kaiser is very much doing the same thing here. I do the same thing as well when I’m heated. It’s only human. But that doesn’t mean it’s correct.

There’s a lot going on in this thread, if there was something else I was supposed to respond to but I didn’t please let me know, I kind of skimmed the last few pages when I realized it was more discussion on stake and illusion mechanics.

[Luka]

Mojojojo you’re reaching Kaiser levels of unhinged, might be time to take a step back and take a breath. It’s not that deep.

[Luka]

Kaiser you really aren’t you really helping yourself. You’re making it incredibly difficult for anyone to want to show you the goodwill you technically deserve but in practice are probably not going to get talking like that …

[Luka]

Someone was clearly spreading the narrative, Crayon. Whether it be on Discord servers or the OOC chat I don’t have access to, the fact that so many people seemed to have this opinion (Before this was posted) very much points in the direction of some bad actors having spread the narrative of Kaiser being a toxic player. I don’t think it was Crayola, Crayola seems to be mature, but I’m sure there might have been an ear or two who Crayola may have, in private, expressed frustrations towards the moment who then took that message and amplified it more than it needed to be amplified.

I don’t think there was any kind of Discord announcement channel “Guys, Leon is the ops, smear him at every opportunity” announcement, but I can very much see friends being upset on behalf of friends and making enough small, subtle comments that people eventually decide that he’s just a shitter who has no place in the game and it’s okay to grief him.

The reason these things are so hard to stop from creeping into a community is because they happen so naturally. Any slight towards a friend by someone who you’re not familiar with can escalate into … well, exactly what we’re seeing here, if people aren’t being careful about policing themselves.

I’ll keep saying it. It’s important to be able to nod your head and say “Yes, bad things are bad”, even when they happen to people you don’t like.

[Luka]

feeling* FUCK

[Luka]

are genuinely feling like*

[Luka]

Crayon encapsulates the point I’m trying to make here quite succinctly.

You’re coming at this from a lot of different angles and bringing up a lot of different things, but it all rings down to the same message, “Kaiser is a bad player and deserved what he got”.

I keep trying to tell you. The most likely reason someone thought it would be okay to no RP kill him is because you’ve been spreading this narrative that he’s this awful player who awful things are justified to be done towards.

The big issue here isn’t the staking, or the mist fuckery (Even though I’m sure those are issues also), the big issue is that you’ve stirred up such an OOC shitstorm that people are genuinely feel like Kaiser deserved what he got. This is not the case. An IC scuffle that ended up with someone staked, in which both players involved were happy to keep things IC and not take things OOC, is not the smoking gun you guys are claiming it to be. The staking did not deserve to be taken from IC to OOC, the no RP killing did.

Stop and reflect. this is not how a healthy community is created. This is YouTube drama levels of maturity. If you want to play in a non-toxic community where good will is common (and you do, everyone should want this), you need to lead the charge on showing that good will (Like Crayola did). That includes nodding your head and saying “Yes, bad things are bad” even when those bad things are happening to people you don’t like.

[Luka]

Agree with a lot of what Crayon is saying here. I’m curious what exactly Crayon is suggesting people do when he suggests people are “mindful of their angle of approach” and I’d like to hear what that specifically means (Does looking both ways before moving onto an intersection square let you know if there’s monsters nearby? It’d be great if it did) but he’s pretty on the money here.

The underground tunnels idea seem kind of jank at first pass since underground tunnel networks have a reputation for being something newbie MUD players struggle with and they are the population that the tunnels would be there to help out, but maybe it’s possible to execute that idea in a newbie-friendly way.

Pushbacks are indeed strange, and so are some mobs. I’ve had Rats teleport 60 distance away from me right before they died. I don’t know if some mobs just have a “teleport on near death” ability or something or if the game is just being janky, but if Kobold knockbacks are teleporting people hundreds away (Really? Hundreds?) that makes me think there’s some buggery going on here.

[Luka]

How is this still a conversation after Crayola’s post?

Messing up and shooting someone in the back and then getting mischaracterized for it is an IC event, and it was handled ICly. A stake is certainly dramatic in that context but it’s well within the bounds of IC drama being dramatic. Crayola was happy to take it on the chin, and did with the most minor possible expression of OOC frustration, Kaiser was happy to take her revenge on the chin and did.

The issue being raised here, and that is very fucking clearly being put on display here by these five pages of OOC argument about whether or not the staking was justified or whether or not Kaiser was mist baiting people, is that certain parties have (Not Crayola, Crayola is an angel) taken this issue OOC to the point where Kaiser’s reputation was made so poor that someone felt justified in zero RP killing them because “Kaiser plays this game like a hack’n’slash MUD” became a prevailing narrative.

I’ve seen multiple people repeat this narrative to me, and it’s a narrative that spread far too quickly and far too far for it to have happened without some kind of OOC conversations happening about it.

Maybe there’s an argument to be made that whoever did the no RP kill is just a bad player and would have done the no RP kill anyway, but those kinds of OOC conversations and these kinds of forum threads are how you create environments in which people feel it’s justified to do things like no RP kills.

It’s really sad to me that Crayola set such a good example of maturity and how to handle these kinds of conflicts and everyone just fucking ignored it and went straight back to trying to make their arguments for why Kaiser deserves to be perma dead.

[Luka]

You’re not wrong at all in any of what you’re saying there but I have actually assessed the situation and come to the right conclusion here. I’ve not been emotionally manipulated and I don’t like the implication that I would have been. I’m not saying Kaiser was agressed on because he was crying, I’m saying he was agressed on for having his character killed in a super lame way using behavior I think we should all be able to agree doesn’t have a place in the game. Character deaths should be the result of well told stories, and they should never happen with zero RP. That is something everyone playing this game should be able to agree on.

[Luka]

I have considered that, yes. I’m not. One side is killing PCs with no story being told, and the other side is telling stories and not trying to kill PCs. I’ve done my research, you should do yours better.

[Luka]

You’re not helping Crayon, this situation is genuinely a shitty one and people are allowed to be upset.

There were genuine bad actors at play here, and I’m very eager to not see H7 fall to the same kind of OOC group meta wars that previous itterations have fallen to. Kaiser is, as usual, not producing his issues in productive ways, but there is behavior going on here that deserves to be called out.

[Luka]

Nah, that troll report was wild and you were off base on that one. You use it if you think someone is RG, not to temporarly become a discord moderator and make your own calls on who you think area breaking the rules. (Even if those calls do happen to be correct)

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