[Matias]

@Miles

I never used the term risk in my posts, I think you are mixing my and Valkuk up or any of the other people that used that term?

[Matias]

Since you are still posting!

1. I totally should have suggested. Wake them up and see if they have any last words or they try and bribe you for their life. I did not think of it at the time, my bad.

2. I am sorry you got no RP killed but unfortunately I was not in a position to ensure you were RPed with so my advice was well if no one wants to interrogate them.

3. I agree if Guests are not default on the should be killed or have a strong reason to kill than it was very bad break of etiquette. I shall ATS.

But yeah I apologize for my part in it. I laid out all the thinking at the time. I agree RP is always the ideal. I agree wake them up and poke them with a stick is a minimum that is easy, should have suggested it.

[Matias]

I think its pretty clear where the uncertainty is but to walk through again.

In the mists combat happened. The Guest character attacked a PC and dealt damage to them. I think when we say soandso attacked we can assume it was not just that a fight had started but they actively dealt damage. So ambush in the mist. Considered a fairly aggressive act probably a higher threat than ambushing someone outside the mists.

The Guest character lost. The Guest character was a known 63rd Legion. The character that won the fight confirmed their identity and discussed options with characters online. (Hi again). Given a mist ambush and a known Legion character the discussion was basically. Well Legion are trying to bring Hell to earth. They are extreme threats in boroughs the Legion controls. We have one. Do we A) interrogate them and kill them. B) Kill them. (note it is my understanding their purpose is to pose a significant obvious threat which justifies killing similar to that of monsters). Advice swings towards well we are probably going to kill them because they are obviously evil and foolishly attacked someone who could handle them. Do we want to interrogate them and subtextually do they want to be put through interrogation with little to no chance of surviving. I guessed not.

Lop of their head. Proceed with the day. Another one bites a dust Lieutenants be warned.

Was it ideal. Nope I said as much above. Was it wrong. I do not think so based on my understanding of the purpose of T4 Guests that are actively working for hell with powers that far exceed other T4s.

Could I be totally wrong and I am a dick for the advice I gave. Sure! I accept that and normally I would have been in the camp of let do some token RP but that just not how the chips fell.

So the questions from the above series of events.

1. Are Guest characters that have an obvious reason to kill them: Monsters / Legion need any reason beyond we caught you to justify killing them? Ideally with RP which I agree is best practice.

2. Warnings of if you kill Guests they are just going to kill you kind of miss the point of Guest character as a tool for players to create content. They are not regular characters. They are free every 2 months (it seems) and so I would say the bar to any extreme action against them is lower than a regular PC and they owe regular PCs content because that is why they exist right?

3. Lets assume there was 1-3 hours of interrogation with a 99.9% chance of killing the Guest character. Would that have been better? If it was better would it be acceptable? If not acceptable, why not?

4. Looks like I may have misread this because it is in the Lieutenants helpfile which made me believe it happens because Lieutenants exist but help lieutenants final paragraph. I see now re-reading it that it could just be them saying Lts exist in raids forever regardless of whether a Guest Lieutenant exists. Maybe ATS but I think I probably misread it.

[Matias]

Well the question here is…

If you encounter 63rd LT is their purpose on grid to be an antagonist and killed?

If yes, then killing them at some point is a presumption.

Obviously the killer consulted other people (Hi I am one of them) and we determined that attacking someone in the mists was a fairly aggressive act.

So you have a 63rd LT whose very existence causes Legion raids to have Lt npcs that make them difficult and who is sworn to bring Hell to earth and thus threatens all factions and societies. Then on top of this they attacked someone in the mists which is again was interpreted as a fairly aggressive act.

Now if 63rd Lieutenants are not presumed to be kill targets than this is a very different conversation. My understanding is that like Monster Guests, Legion Guests are kill targets.

[Matias]

So just to be clear. You would have been fine with potentially 1 to 3 hours of RP with the knowledge that you were almost certainly going to be killed at the end of it? You just wanted to be interrogated and have some slim chance of talking your way out of death?

[Matias]

As someone who gave input on the outcome. Given the Lt attacked someone in the mists. We had them. It is like okay well we are probably 100% killing this person. Is there any form of interrogation RP that is not just pumping them for information and cutting off their head. I did not really see it and took a guess that an enemy guest probably did not want a prolonged scene where they were just treated as information dump and then merc’d.

Definitely knowledge they were a 63rd Lieutenant factored -heavily- into the murder of the character without subsequent RP. Had it been a regular PC. I probably would not have advised as I did.

I have kind of fiddled with the idea of 63rd Legion people being like nabbed and then venetian oathed to leave for X amount of time but that is functionally killing them too so I did not recommend we try something like that this time.

Sorry. I do believe Guests have a much lower threshold to death though because obviously monsters / LTs are in a position where the moral / pragmatic justification to kill them is readily apparent and in some cases a necessity.

[Matias]

My suggestion to ‘improve’ the current method of Invitation Gain.

1. Invitation can only be generated while a T3+ has Acedia.
2. Invitation is generated at 3x or 5x or 10x the Acedia value the T3+ has.
3. Invitation is prioritized towards people who are engaging in more complex/intimate RP with a T3+

Example

Bob has an Acedia value of 0.2 which shows as Acedia 0
Bob is RPing with June asking for a clue related to a plot (not victimizing) and so generates Invitation at a rate of 5x Acedia = 1.0
Bob then RPs with Larry and victimizes them still with a value of 0.2 Acedia so 1.0 Invitation
LLM processes and summarizes these 2 interactions determining the victimization RP is more significant and assigned the Invitation to Larry.

[Matias]

I believe the game does it to cause drama. Fabled are entertainment. The fable having the desire to fuck other people is the whole… like show! Will they, won’t they the real life trope!

[Matias]

I think we need some more information.

1. Are you experiencing invitation increases with T3s you have a coded relationship with?
2. Are you in private mode with the T3?
3. Do you codedly share a property with a T3?

I could see the code / Nova looking at things like that going this is the personal/inviting relationship stuff that would cause gains. Whereas I do not have a relationship codedly with any T3 and I RP with two semi-regularly but only in passing like plots/classes/etc and not sexy time. So I look at people who are having big increases and thinking maybe these are major factors?

[Matias]

Allegedly the LLM is looking at the RP and determining whether it is inviting darkness or not.

I would like to point out if you are having RP that is causing a coded change and you are ignoring the coded change. You are failing to RP consequence.

1. Your character is turning a blind eye to the moral decay of the T3. Whether they want to admit or not T3 is morally compromised and associating with them is turning a blind eye.
2. If your invitation goes up, it goes up, you should RP that it is going up.
3. Fighting coded consequences and trying to RP against the grain is not the path to consistency or a coherent gameworld.

[Matias]

Gonna throw out my personal interpretation of invitation and how to go from an OOC list of additional antag options to an IC scenario.

If you view your aura as a representation of your psyche/person. Than a high invitation shows in the aura. You as a person are inviting (invitation right) darkness into your life. So instead of locking your door every night and setting your alarm maybe you are subconsciously not bothering. So your bedroom might be toughness 100 security 100 but it doesn’t matter because you leave your window unlocked because deep down you unknowingly want to be antaged you want the darkness to come. That is invitation.

Additionally if the habit/subconscious explanation is not sufficient you can go to option 2. That higher invitation equals more susceptible aura equals more susceptible to suggestion. Someone tip taps at your bedroom window and you open it even though you know you shouldn’t. Someone wants to brainwash you and you think you’ll resist, but they are so powerful and eventually they’ll break you so just give up now.

How can someone know soandso is brainwashable or you can break into their bedroom or hack their myhaven. Their aura shows they have given into inviting darkness. They will have habits and susceptible to make those things possible. The antagonizer just has to test and see if it works.

[Matias]

To explain the forced RP comment.

You have antag RP it can be consensual where someone knowingly puts their character into situations which present them with risk. It can be non-consensual where someone is abducted from a highly secure do not bother me bunker.

The greater the negative impact of the antag RP the more likely you will have to find people who are not putting themselves out there for antag RP.

What do I mean?

If antag RP is, I mug you, tell you that you suck, and then take something from you while giving you some bruises. That is essentially 1hour to a week to recover from depending on factors like what I took how bad I messed you up whatever.

If antag RP is, I mug you, bump you up 1-2 invitation tiers and the do the rest of the stuff. That is now days or weeks of recovery time just for the invitation not counting anything else.

Someone that would be okay with being afflicted with negative consequences for hours or days is not looking at consequences going days to week. Thus you will have less willing participants in antag RP and more salty victims that will go. I got 1-2 invitation and the RP wasn’t even that good. Complain complain complain. Lame lame lame. Then eventual ganksquads.

[Matias]

I personally think that T3s being treated as a significant tier is a little silly since the ability to buy foci for T2.

If T3s could access legendaries or there were more things locked to T3 than maybe there would be a mechanical justification.

Right now there is only a narrative/theme justification and we do not know if T3s give invitations faster/slower/same as T4 or T5s.

If it is slower than it would indicate truly higher tiers might be nigh unplayable without actually antaging people by FORCING RP onto them due to everyone protecting their invitation.

I would personally say every 12 hours of RP between yourself and a T3 should result in invitation raising. You can count minimum interaction at 15 minutes so any emote or text without follow up still has progress to the advancing of invitation.

[Matias]

Some missing information

I do a patrol about once a week

I do an encounter every 10 days roughly

I accept encounters every 20 days or say

I do a lot of smaller scenes with 1-3 people tutoring or answering questions or magic stuff

My invitation hovers around 5 – 3 and I have gotten down to 3 several times and bought back up to 5.

I am in 1 society and have only ever been in 1 society

I am a T2 with extra foci

Not sure what else might be relevant to favor earning, but if anyone asks I shall answer.

[Matias]

I guess we just need to start giving hard numbers to determine if there is a variance.

Initial favor 283 > 296 > 393 > 501 > 858 > 1179 > spent some karma 1079 > spent some more 879 > 1027 > 1146 > 1371 > 1549 so that is from June 11th to like now. I had several weeks with no favor, petition, no retro favor.

Gains
13
97
108
357
321
148
119
225
178

Total Emotes: ~_~
Combat Emotes: 125
Public Emotes: 283
Sex Emotes: x_x
Antagonistic Emotes: 120
Victim Emotes: 13

Influence spent on loyalty praises: 70700
Influence spent on loyalty disses: 0
Influence spent on character praises: 30000
Influence spent on character disses: 0
Influence spent on appearance praises: 7500
Influence spent on appearance disses: 0
Rumors started: 8
Big game hunts undertaken: 0
Victims stalked: 0
Number of times stalked: 0
Raids created: 0
Raids attended: 18
Schemes launched: 0
Schemes thwarted: 0
Social events held: 1
Population at most popular event: 9
Social events attended: 3
Adventures attended: 0
Times having sex: O_O
Otherworldly monsters slain: 0

It is interesting that college events are not tracked at all.

[Author]

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