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Jacks White Oak Phil 101 Platos Forms 241015
In the Latin Classroom at the Spender Arts and Wellness Center, under the watchful gaze of aged tomes and through a dance of stained-glass light, discussions of Plato and his seminal work, The Republic, come alive among the students of White Oak. Jack, steering the conversation, illuminates Plato's legacy, with contributions like founding the Academy and conceptualizing democracy catching the students' interest. Illyana Howlett notably breaks down Plato's essential achievements, sparking a lively debate among her classmates. Amidst the exchange, Ash Starling questions the shift from Aristotle to Plato as the focal point of philosophy, while Jodie, struggling with the depth of the topic, amusingly finds herself caught up in a tangential debate about whether a hotdog is a sandwich. The room buzzes with intellectual back-and-forth, ranging from the practicalities of defining concepts like chairs and sandwiches, invoking Plato's theory of Forms, to the intriguing puzzler of what constitutes 'good.'
The discussion deepens as Jack guides the students through the intricacies of Plato’s Republic, challenging them to envision an ideal society and its inherent complexities. This exploration prompts reflections on the necessity of inequality within society and the divisions required for a community to flourish beyond mere sustenance. Ash, Illyana, and Joel contribute thoughtful insights on the balance between individuality and collective needs, while latecomer Sienna Swann leaps into the debate with a nuanced take on the inevitability of conflict in any societal structure. The lecture weaves through the necessity of governing both societies and selves, posing poignant questions about the challenges of creating harmonious, yet vibrant communities. As the class concludes with an assignment that beckons personal reflection, the students are left pondering the profound implications of Plato's philosophy on contemporary life and governance. The air, filled with the promise of future discussions and the looming shadow of Jack’s cryptic mention of sacrifice and magic, marks the end of an intellectually stimulating session, hinting at the deeper, more mystical lessons to come.
(Jack's [White Oak] PHIL101: Plato's Forms)
[Mon Oct 14 2024]
In the Latin Classroom of the Spender Arts and Wellness Center at White Oak
Aged, leather-bound tomes and meticulously annotated manuscripts line the sturdy, oak bookshelves. The soft, filtered sunlight seeps through the stained glass windows, casting a colorful, ethereal glow that dances across the weathered, wooden desks and the intricate, Latin inscriptions adorning the walls. The faint scent of antiquity lingers in the air and the distant murmur of students poring over ancient texts can just barely be heard in the distance.
It is about 60F(15C) degrees.
Jodie makes a pouty face at Jack's comment with a scrunch of her nose. Truthfully the messy haired girl could probably use some playdo to figit with and occupy her attention while she sits through class, absorbing nothing.
Joel gives an uncertain little shrug "Well... he came up with a lot of the fundamental concepts of Western Philosophy. Or at least Socrates says that he did."
Joel blinks "Or am I getting that the wrong way round?"
"Close," Jack tells Joel. "But it wasn't always that way, Mr. Kalani. For a long time, if you asked about ancient philosophy, it was Aristotle -- he was 'the Philosopher.'"
Ash holds up a hand.
"Six things." Illyana offers up. "Firstly, he founded the academy. Secondly his contributions to the philosophical. He cast a wide net. He issentially founded the idea of democracy. His writing is dramatic and captivating to a wide audience. His phylosophical ideas which all but established the subject and left grounding for future expansion by Aristotal, and his most famous work; The Republic."
Ash blinks, then looks over their shoulder at Illyana with interest.
Jack shakes his head briefly before he looks between Ash and Illyana. Focusing first on Illyana, he says, "It's really probably the last piece, Miss Howlett. The Republic, alone, is a work that keeps on giving." Then he looks at Ash. "Yes, Mr. Starling?"
Jodie glances over her shoulder to Illyana behind her in the second row. She furrows her brow then makes a bit of a rude comment by asking Jack, "Wait, are we actually allowed to use chat GPT to answer questions?"
Ash flinches just slightly, having been distracted, before drawling, "Ah, I was going to ask what changed... but I'm assuming now that the Republic may have been discovered after Aristotle's works were, and that's what shifted the position of the Father of Philosophy..." they trail off as Jodie comments, then continues lamely, "...to Plato."
"I mean... you could just take a passing interest." Illyana smirks to Jodie. "It's foundational in social psych as these works all but spiraled off into society and the human understanding."
Joel purses his lips faintly, falling silent as he clearly finds himself in over his head. A pencil is picked up instead, as he starts to take notes, quietly observing the dynamic between the other students.
"Not quite," Jack tells Ash. "For most of human history, republics of all sorts weren't really in vogue." He pauses. "We're going to talk about the Republic today, but we're going to backtrack first. Plato organized everything around a theory of ideas -- of foundational ideas he called 'Forms'," he says. "Mr. Kalani," he says, looking at Joel. "Can you tell me what the essential elements are of a chair?"
Joel smiles wryly "Made and designed to be the right size and shape that one person can sit on it. But obviously you can keep breaking it down, and the more you break it down, the fuzzer it gets. And you end up with infuriating debates about whether a hotdog is a sandwich."
"That project, Mr. Kalani, is the project of defining one of Plato's forms -- it is the -concept- of a chair," Jack says. "Or the -concept- of a sandwich," he explains, looking over to Jodie, Ash, and Illyana. "Is a hot dog a sandwich, Miss Moore?" he asks Jodie, tossing her a softball in a condescending tone.
Ash smirks at Joel as he mentions the common meme. They sit back attentively now, glancing over at Jodie.
Jodie's mouth falls open as she's posed a pretty stupid question, but she's clearly at that level and it takes her a second to turn the gears in her brain before she offers without any certainty, "..No?..Maybe?.." she can't even answer that
Jack tries Illyana. "Miss Howlett, what is a sandwich? The concept of it," he clarifies. "The -form- of it?"
Joel rubs his forehead slightly. Clearly he wasn't kidding when he said he found this question irritating. His own fault for raising it.
"To get pretty literal, a sandwich is two slices of bread around meat, cheese or some other filling." Illyana offers. "The /concept/ or idea of it is as simple as that, but its ascribed meaning is open to interpretation and designated as much meaning as we, the observer ascribe it. So for terminology with generally accepted understanding as agreed in consensus, a hotdog is, by tachnicality a sandwich. Even if it's rank."
"So what's the concept of 'good'?" Jack follows up, now calling on Ash.
"Well a hotdog isn't two slices of bread. It's one slice. It's basically like a pita." Jodie says after the debate on whether it's a sandwich gets going.
Jack offers Jodie an approving chuckle.
Illyana says "Though to break it all down; A chair or a sandwich is an idea given form."
Jodie grunts softly in an unlady-like manner when Ash whispers something to her.
Illyana says "And also, it's only not a sandwich if you don't use a bread cob, which if you're going to eat a hotdog you should use or it's like eating plastic."
Illyana grimaces at the idea
Ash whispers something, then shoots up straight looking a bit guilty. "Good is hard to define, but I think most would say that good is actions, behavior, and mindsets that contribute to the happiness and well-being of the group - ideally, humanity, as a whole. So, what makes us all happy, healthy, and prospering is good."
Jack repeats back, "Humanity as a whole." He nods to Ash. "And so we turn to the Republic," he says. "Where I think we'll take the rest of our time for today's class." He pauses. "The Republic, in short, is Plato's answer to 'how best to run a society.'" A pause. "It has a lot of insight, but I want to zero in on something I think is the most important."
Ash leans in slightly, eyes narrowed on Jack behind their sunglasses.
Jodie barely managed hot-dogs, chairs and pitas as a concept and so when things get back to deeper topics, the woman leans back in her seat and goes blank faced. Contrasting greatly with Ash who leaned in, showing more interest.
Illyana looks ready to take notes, watching Jack as he tutors the class.
Joel hunches his shoulders a little, as if of someone knowing he's about to get lost. But he keeps focusing on his notes, now and then chewing thoughtfully on the end of his pencil.
"Plato's dialogues are all conversations between Socrates -- not the man, but Plato's vision of him -- and some others," Jack says. "At the start of the Republic, Socrates is asked 'what makes a good society'." He pauses. "He says that he can imagine an excellent society; it's a few houses, each which enough pigs to support the family, along with some vines and other farmland. Each day the people who live in those houses wake, work the land, live off the land they have worked, and sleep." A beat. "Does anyone see any shortcomings in that society?"
Ash raises their hand cautiously.
"It's robotic and devoid of personality and individuality." Illyana posits as an opening statement, though aside from having a list of things; Though there is one, she isn't going into that, this is to open the floor for the rest of the class to expand on.
"Mr. Starling," Jack says, calling on Ash.
Ash explain cheerfully, "A lack of joy, fun, entertainment. Similar to what Yana said, art and entertainment are important parts of what makes life worth living. That pursuit of happiness." Their plush brown lips twirk into a smile as they explain, still tapping their nails on the desktop as they do.
Joel nods quietly as if agreeing with the general tenor of his fellow students, but his wary expression suggests he expects a trap.
"Entertainment's hard, though, isn't it?" Jack tells Ash and Illyana. "Now we're asking for a little more to our civilization -- we want art. We want individuality," he says. "Two or three farms aren't going to support a full-time artist, are they?" He looks at Joel. "Do you think Michelangelo could have painted the Sistine Chapel, Mr. Kalani, if he had to milk the cows each morning?" Then Jodie. "Do you know who Michelangelo is, Miss Moore?"
Jodie sits up straighter and gets a look of alarm when she's called on yet again. She dives deep this time, deep into her memories, passing recollections of Michelangelo. She really is thinking hard. Eventually she offers up the bare minimum, "Yeah..though all I know is that he painted things." obviously. Jack just said that.
Jack asks, "Anyone else want to chime in, since Mr. Kalani seems distracted?"
Ash drawls, given permission to simply chime in, "No, I think not. I barely have time to do art as I am, let alone needing to milk cows. And a project that big?"
Joel shrugs a little "I mean, the ideal of the self-sufficient yeoman farmer was always embraced by people who didn't have to work the land themselves. Any kind of achievement is ultimately built on accumulation of wealth, and therefore on inequality."
Jack continues: "Exactly so." He nods approvingly to Ash. "You need more than a few farms," he says. "You need a city -- and that's the distinction Plato drew. A city in pigs could govern itself easily," he explains. "But a true community, a 'city in heat' -- one that has arts and literature, plays and leisure... It needs to divide itself so that there is an order to things. So that the farmers farm and the artists make art and there are soldier to protect it. As Mr. Kalani says -- there must be inequality, and so that inequality needs to be ordered for society's best ends." He pauses. "Does anyone have questions about that essential division? I'd like to turn to the part of this idea that I think is most relevant to our lives."
Illyana shakes her head. Inequality is a tried and tested fact of life with nuance and opening that box is something the bohemian doesn't need right now, though she does offer up the observation, "Fortunately, society and inequality is largely self fulfilling. You have differing interests skattered throughout, which lends itself to the idealised structure that those who want to farm can farm, those who want to fight fight and so on. But as race, society and class devides continue to teach us; There is no such thing as an idealised society. Hence why it is an /ideal/ and to aspire to."
Ash considers this, tilting their head. They raise their hand slowly, almost reluctantly. They turn to listen to Illyana, but keep their hand up.
Looking around the class, "Let's drill into what I think -- Mr. Starling," he says, pausing to call on Ash. Jack turns to look at the androgyne.
Ash asks, almost apologetically, "Why is inequality necessary? Why can't soldiers, farmers, and artists all be equally, but differently, valued? And how does one order inequality, unless that's what you were next going to explain?"
"It wasn't," Jack tells Ash. "Though your question really begs the answer, doesn't it? If you're a farmer and I am a soldier, then I starve -- or perhaps you starve, since I have all the force and you have all the food. There is a natural inequality between us; you have things I do not, and I have things you do not," he says. "And so we have to order ourselves in some fashion to manage that inequality." He pauses. "This isn't a class on political philosophy, but perhaps it should be, but a common aphorism is that the essence of government is that it possesses a monopoly on force."
"Be a god and make yourself some angelborn." Illyana, the angelborn observes dryly, sentiment dripping with sarcasm.
looks up at the clock. "We're getting to the end of class, so I'll finish my though." He pauses. "Just as we need to govern the city, we need to govern ourselves," Jack shares. "And as there is a city in pigs and a city in heat, there is also a life in pigs and a life in heat." He looks at Ash, Illyana and Joel. "If we have simple appetites, it is simple to govern ourselves," he says. "If our appetites are complicated?" He looks up at Sienna. "You are very late, Miss Swann."
Jack looks up at the clock. "We're getting to the end of class, so I'll finish my though." He pauses. "Just as we need to govern the city, we need to govern ourselves," Jack shares. "And as there is a city in pigs and a city in heat, there is also a life in pigs and a life in heat." He looks at Ash, Illyana and Joel. "If we have simple appetites, it is simple to govern ourselves," he says. "If our appetites are complicated?" He looks up at Sienna. "You are very late, Miss Swann."
Ash smiles at Sienna as if expecting her, though their expression is thoughtful.
Sienna attempts to slip into the classroom without drawing attention to herself, but the ever astute Jack finds her all too quickly before her butt can tuck into a seat along Jodie and Ash's row of seats. She sighs out, deflating into a chair, smiling weakly at Jack. "My apologies, Father."
Joel sits back with a faint frown, the complications of the subject clearly starting to overwhelm him, his pencil moving a little aimlessly over his notepad--probably doodling by the look of it.
"My last question, Mr. Kalani," Jack tells Joel, though he opens it generally to the class. "What do you think might make governing ourselves more complicated?" he asks. "Miss Howlett has already suggested one... complication."
Jodie glances to Sienna at her arrival and smirks, "Wow, like an hour late. Who's the delinquent now?"
Sienna narrows her eyes at Jodie briefly before she settles into her seat, eyes attentive and trained on Jack as she quickly attempts to deduce where they are in the dwindling time of the lecture. "Differing opinions would cause infighting almost immediately, wouldn't it? There'd always be someone who couldn't resist rising to power, and the weak would rally to them, then they'd be hated and deposed, rinse and repeat." She's so optimistic.
Joel lifts an eyebrow "The mere fact we live in a complex universe with countless things to inspire reactions?" He glances toward Illyana "And yeah, that's before you start considering supernal influence."
"Miss Swann isn't wrong, though hers is really a comment about civilization," Jack observes. "I'll give you all one more round of thoughts, but it's okay if you can't quite articulate them." His smile has some mild edge of cruelty. "Homework will be be about cities -- and lives -- in heat."
Ash taps a long brown finger against their lips. They offer, "We are not cities in heat ourself. We are unbalanced, and have different needs and skills. We can't govern ourselves easily because we can't just use the same set of rules. We're too different."
"In heat?" Sienna echoes after Jack, nearly choking on her own breath. She slumps down, sliding over toward Ash, seeking shelter with her friend.
Ash leans onto Sienna's shoulder, then turns to whisper into her ear.
"The propencity for free will, the hubris of man and a general lack of objective morality." Illyana likewise snarks, adding to her own thought. There is very obviously much more there, but she distills it to the raw basics without turning this into a rant.
"It's Plato's phrase, Miss Swann," Jack tells Sienna. "A simple city is just farmers, each farming their own land, without any real differentiation. Such a city is easy to govern -- it is a city in pigs." He pauses. "But a city with artists, and soldiers, and wealth, and great things. That is a city in heat, and governing it, like governing ourselves, is hard." He turns to the board, starting to write homework.
Jodie glances to Ash, blank faced at her whisper. There is perhaps zero comprehension on her face in regards to what is being said in class.
Joel gives acurious glance at Ash at all the whispering, but is otherwise clearly about ready to be done with this particular lecture.
Jack finishes writing. "There we go," he says. "200-300 words, due Monday. What complications does our world create that are hard to govern?" he says. "I'll accept any answer, if it's thoughtful. Any questions?"
Illyana reads what Jack wrote on the board, transcribing and saving it for evaluation and notation.
Jack says, "Class dismissed. I have to take a meeting now, I'm afraid." A smile. "But I'll have office hours soon."
Ash looks at their paper, nodding to Jack and drawling, "Thank you for the lesson, Father."
Standing, Illyana addresses Jack. "Thank you for the informative insight, Father." Then, she is off.
"I think perhaps we'll take a break soon and do some practical seminars," Jack shares. "It's been a long time since I tied a student to a cross, after all, and I see Miss Swann here. I'm sure she'll be on time for that one."
Jodie perks up at Jack's comment about Sienna and she seems to find that very amusing as she chuckles at Sienna's expense
Ash blinks as Jack shares this out loud, focusing again. "I... why... what do you do that for?!"
Joel blinks a bit at that last comment, which definitely seems to startle him out of his intellectual exhaustion.
Sienna widens her eyes at Jack, nearly spluttering out a, "W-Wait, what?" She clears her throat, wiggling in her seat, propping her cheek to Ash's shoulder. "He makes me sound like an Arkwright."
Steely eyes turn on Ash. "Magic is about sacrifice," Jack says. "And when I teach it?" he says. "I teach all of its consequences." He pauses. "Have a good afternoon, students." Then he steps into the office, leaving that ominous note behind.
The discussion deepens as Jack guides the students through the intricacies of Plato’s Republic, challenging them to envision an ideal society and its inherent complexities. This exploration prompts reflections on the necessity of inequality within society and the divisions required for a community to flourish beyond mere sustenance. Ash, Illyana, and Joel contribute thoughtful insights on the balance between individuality and collective needs, while latecomer Sienna Swann leaps into the debate with a nuanced take on the inevitability of conflict in any societal structure. The lecture weaves through the necessity of governing both societies and selves, posing poignant questions about the challenges of creating harmonious, yet vibrant communities. As the class concludes with an assignment that beckons personal reflection, the students are left pondering the profound implications of Plato's philosophy on contemporary life and governance. The air, filled with the promise of future discussions and the looming shadow of Jack’s cryptic mention of sacrifice and magic, marks the end of an intellectually stimulating session, hinting at the deeper, more mystical lessons to come.
(Jack's [White Oak] PHIL101: Plato's Forms)
[Mon Oct 14 2024]
In the Latin Classroom of the Spender Arts and Wellness Center at White Oak
Aged, leather-bound tomes and meticulously annotated manuscripts line the sturdy, oak bookshelves. The soft, filtered sunlight seeps through the stained glass windows, casting a colorful, ethereal glow that dances across the weathered, wooden desks and the intricate, Latin inscriptions adorning the walls. The faint scent of antiquity lingers in the air and the distant murmur of students poring over ancient texts can just barely be heard in the distance.
It is about 60F(15C) degrees.
Jodie makes a pouty face at Jack's comment with a scrunch of her nose. Truthfully the messy haired girl could probably use some playdo to figit with and occupy her attention while she sits through class, absorbing nothing.
Joel gives an uncertain little shrug "Well... he came up with a lot of the fundamental concepts of Western Philosophy. Or at least Socrates says that he did."
Joel blinks "Or am I getting that the wrong way round?"
"Close," Jack tells Joel. "But it wasn't always that way, Mr. Kalani. For a long time, if you asked about ancient philosophy, it was Aristotle -- he was 'the Philosopher.'"
Ash holds up a hand.
"Six things." Illyana offers up. "Firstly, he founded the academy. Secondly his contributions to the philosophical. He cast a wide net. He issentially founded the idea of democracy. His writing is dramatic and captivating to a wide audience. His phylosophical ideas which all but established the subject and left grounding for future expansion by Aristotal, and his most famous work; The Republic."
Ash blinks, then looks over their shoulder at Illyana with interest.
Jack shakes his head briefly before he looks between Ash and Illyana. Focusing first on Illyana, he says, "It's really probably the last piece, Miss Howlett. The Republic, alone, is a work that keeps on giving." Then he looks at Ash. "Yes, Mr. Starling?"
Jodie glances over her shoulder to Illyana behind her in the second row. She furrows her brow then makes a bit of a rude comment by asking Jack, "Wait, are we actually allowed to use chat GPT to answer questions?"
Ash flinches just slightly, having been distracted, before drawling, "Ah, I was going to ask what changed... but I'm assuming now that the Republic may have been discovered after Aristotle's works were, and that's what shifted the position of the Father of Philosophy..." they trail off as Jodie comments, then continues lamely, "...to Plato."
"I mean... you could just take a passing interest." Illyana smirks to Jodie. "It's foundational in social psych as these works all but spiraled off into society and the human understanding."
Joel purses his lips faintly, falling silent as he clearly finds himself in over his head. A pencil is picked up instead, as he starts to take notes, quietly observing the dynamic between the other students.
"Not quite," Jack tells Ash. "For most of human history, republics of all sorts weren't really in vogue." He pauses. "We're going to talk about the Republic today, but we're going to backtrack first. Plato organized everything around a theory of ideas -- of foundational ideas he called 'Forms'," he says. "Mr. Kalani," he says, looking at Joel. "Can you tell me what the essential elements are of a chair?"
Joel smiles wryly "Made and designed to be the right size and shape that one person can sit on it. But obviously you can keep breaking it down, and the more you break it down, the fuzzer it gets. And you end up with infuriating debates about whether a hotdog is a sandwich."
"That project, Mr. Kalani, is the project of defining one of Plato's forms -- it is the -concept- of a chair," Jack says. "Or the -concept- of a sandwich," he explains, looking over to Jodie, Ash, and Illyana. "Is a hot dog a sandwich, Miss Moore?" he asks Jodie, tossing her a softball in a condescending tone.
Ash smirks at Joel as he mentions the common meme. They sit back attentively now, glancing over at Jodie.
Jodie's mouth falls open as she's posed a pretty stupid question, but she's clearly at that level and it takes her a second to turn the gears in her brain before she offers without any certainty, "..No?..Maybe?.." she can't even answer that
Jack tries Illyana. "Miss Howlett, what is a sandwich? The concept of it," he clarifies. "The -form- of it?"
Joel rubs his forehead slightly. Clearly he wasn't kidding when he said he found this question irritating. His own fault for raising it.
"To get pretty literal, a sandwich is two slices of bread around meat, cheese or some other filling." Illyana offers. "The /concept/ or idea of it is as simple as that, but its ascribed meaning is open to interpretation and designated as much meaning as we, the observer ascribe it. So for terminology with generally accepted understanding as agreed in consensus, a hotdog is, by tachnicality a sandwich. Even if it's rank."
"So what's the concept of 'good'?" Jack follows up, now calling on Ash.
"Well a hotdog isn't two slices of bread. It's one slice. It's basically like a pita." Jodie says after the debate on whether it's a sandwich gets going.
Jack offers Jodie an approving chuckle.
Illyana says "Though to break it all down; A chair or a sandwich is an idea given form."
Jodie grunts softly in an unlady-like manner when Ash whispers something to her.
Illyana says "And also, it's only not a sandwich if you don't use a bread cob, which if you're going to eat a hotdog you should use or it's like eating plastic."
Illyana grimaces at the idea
Ash whispers something, then shoots up straight looking a bit guilty. "Good is hard to define, but I think most would say that good is actions, behavior, and mindsets that contribute to the happiness and well-being of the group - ideally, humanity, as a whole. So, what makes us all happy, healthy, and prospering is good."
Jack repeats back, "Humanity as a whole." He nods to Ash. "And so we turn to the Republic," he says. "Where I think we'll take the rest of our time for today's class." He pauses. "The Republic, in short, is Plato's answer to 'how best to run a society.'" A pause. "It has a lot of insight, but I want to zero in on something I think is the most important."
Ash leans in slightly, eyes narrowed on Jack behind their sunglasses.
Jodie barely managed hot-dogs, chairs and pitas as a concept and so when things get back to deeper topics, the woman leans back in her seat and goes blank faced. Contrasting greatly with Ash who leaned in, showing more interest.
Illyana looks ready to take notes, watching Jack as he tutors the class.
Joel hunches his shoulders a little, as if of someone knowing he's about to get lost. But he keeps focusing on his notes, now and then chewing thoughtfully on the end of his pencil.
"Plato's dialogues are all conversations between Socrates -- not the man, but Plato's vision of him -- and some others," Jack says. "At the start of the Republic, Socrates is asked 'what makes a good society'." He pauses. "He says that he can imagine an excellent society; it's a few houses, each which enough pigs to support the family, along with some vines and other farmland. Each day the people who live in those houses wake, work the land, live off the land they have worked, and sleep." A beat. "Does anyone see any shortcomings in that society?"
Ash raises their hand cautiously.
"It's robotic and devoid of personality and individuality." Illyana posits as an opening statement, though aside from having a list of things; Though there is one, she isn't going into that, this is to open the floor for the rest of the class to expand on.
"Mr. Starling," Jack says, calling on Ash.
Ash explain cheerfully, "A lack of joy, fun, entertainment. Similar to what Yana said, art and entertainment are important parts of what makes life worth living. That pursuit of happiness." Their plush brown lips twirk into a smile as they explain, still tapping their nails on the desktop as they do.
Joel nods quietly as if agreeing with the general tenor of his fellow students, but his wary expression suggests he expects a trap.
"Entertainment's hard, though, isn't it?" Jack tells Ash and Illyana. "Now we're asking for a little more to our civilization -- we want art. We want individuality," he says. "Two or three farms aren't going to support a full-time artist, are they?" He looks at Joel. "Do you think Michelangelo could have painted the Sistine Chapel, Mr. Kalani, if he had to milk the cows each morning?" Then Jodie. "Do you know who Michelangelo is, Miss Moore?"
Jodie sits up straighter and gets a look of alarm when she's called on yet again. She dives deep this time, deep into her memories, passing recollections of Michelangelo. She really is thinking hard. Eventually she offers up the bare minimum, "Yeah..though all I know is that he painted things." obviously. Jack just said that.
Jack asks, "Anyone else want to chime in, since Mr. Kalani seems distracted?"
Ash drawls, given permission to simply chime in, "No, I think not. I barely have time to do art as I am, let alone needing to milk cows. And a project that big?"
Joel shrugs a little "I mean, the ideal of the self-sufficient yeoman farmer was always embraced by people who didn't have to work the land themselves. Any kind of achievement is ultimately built on accumulation of wealth, and therefore on inequality."
Jack continues: "Exactly so." He nods approvingly to Ash. "You need more than a few farms," he says. "You need a city -- and that's the distinction Plato drew. A city in pigs could govern itself easily," he explains. "But a true community, a 'city in heat' -- one that has arts and literature, plays and leisure... It needs to divide itself so that there is an order to things. So that the farmers farm and the artists make art and there are soldier to protect it. As Mr. Kalani says -- there must be inequality, and so that inequality needs to be ordered for society's best ends." He pauses. "Does anyone have questions about that essential division? I'd like to turn to the part of this idea that I think is most relevant to our lives."
Illyana shakes her head. Inequality is a tried and tested fact of life with nuance and opening that box is something the bohemian doesn't need right now, though she does offer up the observation, "Fortunately, society and inequality is largely self fulfilling. You have differing interests skattered throughout, which lends itself to the idealised structure that those who want to farm can farm, those who want to fight fight and so on. But as race, society and class devides continue to teach us; There is no such thing as an idealised society. Hence why it is an /ideal/ and to aspire to."
Ash considers this, tilting their head. They raise their hand slowly, almost reluctantly. They turn to listen to Illyana, but keep their hand up.
Looking around the class, "Let's drill into what I think -- Mr. Starling," he says, pausing to call on Ash. Jack turns to look at the androgyne.
Ash asks, almost apologetically, "Why is inequality necessary? Why can't soldiers, farmers, and artists all be equally, but differently, valued? And how does one order inequality, unless that's what you were next going to explain?"
"It wasn't," Jack tells Ash. "Though your question really begs the answer, doesn't it? If you're a farmer and I am a soldier, then I starve -- or perhaps you starve, since I have all the force and you have all the food. There is a natural inequality between us; you have things I do not, and I have things you do not," he says. "And so we have to order ourselves in some fashion to manage that inequality." He pauses. "This isn't a class on political philosophy, but perhaps it should be, but a common aphorism is that the essence of government is that it possesses a monopoly on force."
"Be a god and make yourself some angelborn." Illyana, the angelborn observes dryly, sentiment dripping with sarcasm.
looks up at the clock. "We're getting to the end of class, so I'll finish my though." He pauses. "Just as we need to govern the city, we need to govern ourselves," Jack shares. "And as there is a city in pigs and a city in heat, there is also a life in pigs and a life in heat." He looks at Ash, Illyana and Joel. "If we have simple appetites, it is simple to govern ourselves," he says. "If our appetites are complicated?" He looks up at Sienna. "You are very late, Miss Swann."
Jack looks up at the clock. "We're getting to the end of class, so I'll finish my though." He pauses. "Just as we need to govern the city, we need to govern ourselves," Jack shares. "And as there is a city in pigs and a city in heat, there is also a life in pigs and a life in heat." He looks at Ash, Illyana and Joel. "If we have simple appetites, it is simple to govern ourselves," he says. "If our appetites are complicated?" He looks up at Sienna. "You are very late, Miss Swann."
Ash smiles at Sienna as if expecting her, though their expression is thoughtful.
Sienna attempts to slip into the classroom without drawing attention to herself, but the ever astute Jack finds her all too quickly before her butt can tuck into a seat along Jodie and Ash's row of seats. She sighs out, deflating into a chair, smiling weakly at Jack. "My apologies, Father."
Joel sits back with a faint frown, the complications of the subject clearly starting to overwhelm him, his pencil moving a little aimlessly over his notepad--probably doodling by the look of it.
"My last question, Mr. Kalani," Jack tells Joel, though he opens it generally to the class. "What do you think might make governing ourselves more complicated?" he asks. "Miss Howlett has already suggested one... complication."
Jodie glances to Sienna at her arrival and smirks, "Wow, like an hour late. Who's the delinquent now?"
Sienna narrows her eyes at Jodie briefly before she settles into her seat, eyes attentive and trained on Jack as she quickly attempts to deduce where they are in the dwindling time of the lecture. "Differing opinions would cause infighting almost immediately, wouldn't it? There'd always be someone who couldn't resist rising to power, and the weak would rally to them, then they'd be hated and deposed, rinse and repeat." She's so optimistic.
Joel lifts an eyebrow "The mere fact we live in a complex universe with countless things to inspire reactions?" He glances toward Illyana "And yeah, that's before you start considering supernal influence."
"Miss Swann isn't wrong, though hers is really a comment about civilization," Jack observes. "I'll give you all one more round of thoughts, but it's okay if you can't quite articulate them." His smile has some mild edge of cruelty. "Homework will be be about cities -- and lives -- in heat."
Ash taps a long brown finger against their lips. They offer, "We are not cities in heat ourself. We are unbalanced, and have different needs and skills. We can't govern ourselves easily because we can't just use the same set of rules. We're too different."
"In heat?" Sienna echoes after Jack, nearly choking on her own breath. She slumps down, sliding over toward Ash, seeking shelter with her friend.
Ash leans onto Sienna's shoulder, then turns to whisper into her ear.
"The propencity for free will, the hubris of man and a general lack of objective morality." Illyana likewise snarks, adding to her own thought. There is very obviously much more there, but she distills it to the raw basics without turning this into a rant.
"It's Plato's phrase, Miss Swann," Jack tells Sienna. "A simple city is just farmers, each farming their own land, without any real differentiation. Such a city is easy to govern -- it is a city in pigs." He pauses. "But a city with artists, and soldiers, and wealth, and great things. That is a city in heat, and governing it, like governing ourselves, is hard." He turns to the board, starting to write homework.
Jodie glances to Ash, blank faced at her whisper. There is perhaps zero comprehension on her face in regards to what is being said in class.
Joel gives acurious glance at Ash at all the whispering, but is otherwise clearly about ready to be done with this particular lecture.
Jack finishes writing. "There we go," he says. "200-300 words, due Monday. What complications does our world create that are hard to govern?" he says. "I'll accept any answer, if it's thoughtful. Any questions?"
Illyana reads what Jack wrote on the board, transcribing and saving it for evaluation and notation.
Jack says, "Class dismissed. I have to take a meeting now, I'm afraid." A smile. "But I'll have office hours soon."
Ash looks at their paper, nodding to Jack and drawling, "Thank you for the lesson, Father."
Standing, Illyana addresses Jack. "Thank you for the informative insight, Father." Then, she is off.
"I think perhaps we'll take a break soon and do some practical seminars," Jack shares. "It's been a long time since I tied a student to a cross, after all, and I see Miss Swann here. I'm sure she'll be on time for that one."
Jodie perks up at Jack's comment about Sienna and she seems to find that very amusing as she chuckles at Sienna's expense
Ash blinks as Jack shares this out loud, focusing again. "I... why... what do you do that for?!"
Joel blinks a bit at that last comment, which definitely seems to startle him out of his intellectual exhaustion.
Sienna widens her eyes at Jack, nearly spluttering out a, "W-Wait, what?" She clears her throat, wiggling in her seat, propping her cheek to Ash's shoulder. "He makes me sound like an Arkwright."
Steely eyes turn on Ash. "Magic is about sacrifice," Jack says. "And when I teach it?" he says. "I teach all of its consequences." He pauses. "Have a good afternoon, students." Then he steps into the office, leaving that ominous note behind.