[bean]

what if haven became a period drama where everyone’s birth year starts with a 1

[bean]

@dream my 2c:

i think players usually do themselves disservice when they seek to remake chars & their arcs like that across iterations

you are not hurting me as a fellow player if you do this so i’m not telling you not to do it, if it’s what you want to do.

but every iteration is a chance for a fresh start, fresh ties, setting aside old hurts.

maybe bob pk’d sue in h5. maybe he had good reason too. but in h6 they make new chars & get along great. this probably has less chance happening if they remake bob & sue, or bob the second & suzie suesdottir.

plus if you remake bob, ppl are less curious or hyped to meet bob in h6. they see you on who list and go, oh this guy again. whereas when they see connelly they go omg who’s this new connelly guy, is he cute??

again just my 2c, this is not a policy recommendation or anything. but i think it is usually in a player’s own best interests to embrace a full fresh start. to not do that isn’t exactly harmful tho, so live your best life.

[bean]

i realise we’re past the point of actually discussing anything useful but since a decision has already been made, i won’t feel bad now about derailing this thread further, as its actual purpose has expired

i would just like to say that the wild hunt was a cool concept, story-wise.

i realise the point of it was not story, it was to solve an ooc game design problem.

i think people would have enjoyed the wild hunt more and been along for the ride if it actually had story attached. maybe even doom too.

people play these games (largely) for story.

if you ignore that then you will only get gamist players mad about gamist things instead of people here for story excited about story things.

it’s like if your goal was to argue in favour of the institution of marriage but you just focus on the financial or political benefits. people who are happily married aren’t thinking about how it united their houses. they’re thinking about how great the sex is and that their partner keeps the romance alive.

wild hunt & doom had no romance. no story. story in concept was just for show. it was just a functional systems feature.

so many problems with haven are not down to bad ideas. they are down to wasted potential/execution/storylessness of those ideas.

[bean]

i mean when someone makes the argument that the main thing wrong with haven is players who adhere to the established theme & documentation & expect others to also do that … and forum rant in a way that makes me doubt they even enjoy the game they’re playing … i just assume that player is not actually new. cos new players usually arrive with rosy glasses, eager to learn/adapt/conform & not yet disillusioned, and if they’re not happy they just never get into it and dip. whereas established players have a hard time letting go of a game they hate due to years of investment. they don’t actually want to be playing that game anymore, they want to be playing a different game that doesn’t exist, so they just play their own version of the game and ignore anything that stands in the way of that. which is very annoying for everyone else who wants to be playing the actual game btw, so then i assume you write off their annoyance as elitism. but bro i’d be annoyed if i signed up for violin lessons and then my teacher pulled out a ukulele, and said it’s just a matter of interpretation

but it’s the internet tbh and anyone can claim anything. i for one identify as a legume and if you try to say otherwise you’re an elitist griefer

[bean]

i mean is it really dead if the alleged proof of its demise is a copypaste of it? like what is this high horse even. you can’t be acting better than someone whose code & years of hard work you’re using to make your point

stay original or stay humble

[bean]

i enjoyed the concept of H7 as much as arachne and maina did. the idea of it, basically. i think the idea of an internationally important hub of supernatural activity makes way more sense as a big city than a sleepy seaside town.

i just didn’t enjoy how much of it was ai-generated. and while crayon says the ai npcs were opt in, they were unavoidable if you rped in faction hubs at all.

haven has always had many faults, but what kept me coming back was stories and a desire to write with other people. H7 stole that. realistically that is a player culture issue as much as it is a design issue, because even undoing it won’t stop people from flooding a redux with countless ai slop-shops. i tbh don’t see myself playing any version of haven going forward unless policy aimed at addressing this is at least semi-successfully implemented.

in theory, i would take big city haven over small town haven.

in practice, i would take every lovingly hand-written desc and 3-sentence lore helpfile over every 6-paragraph ai desc & half-hallucinated lore file.

i will play any version of haven that has real human creativity at its heart.

[bean]

i think the main issue with H7 was just the amount of AI sloppification. i’m not into that and i know many people feel the same way, and dropped off for the same reason.

i wouldn’t play an older version of haven that had blackfield, and that also seems unnecessary given duskholm exists now.

abominations would be interesting to see again, also the old b3 with the class system back when it was less power=corruption and the factions were all pretty balanced power-wise. but that’s from way before h5/6/7. that older version had problems for sure and i’m not saying it was better, just that it holds nostalgia.

[bean]

cool can we play children again??

[bean]

it is funny to me that you compare the situation to women getting sa’d. because to me it reads like a dude getting unmatched on tinder, and then spending the next few weeks trying to track this woman down for an explanation on why he was unmatched, why he didn’t get a second date, why she didn’t acknowledge he’s nice. you are not the woman getting sa’d in this scenario, you are the man who winds up with a restraining order, still demanding an explanation from someone who wants to be left alone.

[bean]

Bean you are a troll, you veil your targeting with indirect jabs which invites others to speculate while denying you are escalating the situation. You take a patronizing tone, as if you see the truth and no one else can, while gaslighting and framing my self-defense as manipulative, which then further tries to cast doubt on anyone who would support my stance. You use sophistry like you’re some intellectual stoic while trying to paint me as emotionally unstable, all the while trying to act like you aren’t some instigator, from the very begging, while topping it off with signature smugness.

did you just feed my posts to chatgpt and ask it to insult me

[Author]

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