[Evermore]

That wasn’t my intent, if it came across like that, apologies Diego 🙂 If we had a poll, it’d be a lot clearer to gage where people actually sit. I’m still just a bit befuddled how we came to a majority, and how out-of-nowhere this kind of came for those of us still playing. From actively continuing to play, stabilizing the Legion incursion, etc., to a post inquiring about the idea of a reboot/redux, and then a one-week end-of-life notice that hasn’t even been made public in-game yet.

[Evermore]

Against:
Diego
Maina
Evermore
Nymfette
Talia
Alpha (?)
Holic

Various people on Newbie who missed this post/don’t forum, whose opinins aren’t heard/counted

For:
Mirudus
Preheating
Calista
Esma
Iaje
Adelaide
Noori

Uncertain:
bean
Crayon (maybe no?)
Arachne (maybe yes?)
Dream

I don’t know what I may have missed. This doesn’t really strike me as some majority. We also still haven’t gotten an Announcement post in-game for those who don’t/can’t check the forums.

[Evermore]

Nothing about that suggestion sounds fun for me, beyond a one-weekend shtick. At that point, just host an event in Haven and brainwash us all present to behave like we’re in the Roaring 60s or something.

[Evermore]

Even, currently with those of us talking in Tells/Newbie, nobody seems to want to let H7 go. Some were not even aware of the possible wipe, yet, so it might be their voices are left completely unheard, favoured instead by a vocal majority of people who, to my understanding, had also moved on or abandoned this ship entirely.

[Evermore]

I share most of what the post above said, which also holds true as this was my first exposure to Haven’s roleplaying and narrative potential. I didn’t see the Announcement by Ouroboros initially, and I’m genuinely really saddened to see it get terminated. There’s so much I haven’t got to try yet that is available currently, and there’s so much story left unwritten and unfinished. I found quite a lot of motivation to keep playing, learning more about the game and being able to establish a society that could be welcoming to new and returning people alike. There’s no motivation to speak of throwing all that away, starting anew from scrap in a setting I know very little of, or even cobble up a character to throw into that sphere I feel inspired to play. I decided to commit to this iteration when I was asking for direction, and some of the kind and patient people who helped guide me towards diving into joining the society network, joining the anti-Legion movement, partaking in plots I felt a little out of place and uncomfortable in initially. Would have loved to see this was more of a wake-up call, that with some commitment and changes, this version of Haven can etch out a resurgence of sorts. But we can’t always have what we want, that is just life, right? 😛

Thanks to everyone who helped shepherd me during my rough and confusing start on my character; It was genuinely what made me stick around, because I found caring and committed people who helped me find quite an inspiring and intriguing world in this peculiar coastal city to try establish myself in. It was a great experience, even if I only have had little interaction with some of you. I would have also loved to see what this game could have been, or was before when it was bustling, and see what kind of interesting stories and events could take place. Best of luck 🙂

[Evermore]

*Evalina’s perspective, not Talia’s – my bad

[Evermore]

So are we facing a wipe? Those of us still around would appreciate some information regarding that. I think I share Talia’s perspective here, where a rerun just seems to cater to nostalgia, and will quickly run dry. I’ve no experience with these older iterations, so I’ve no real clue what to expect, but it’s a blow to my remaining motivation to know this version is just going to get tossed aside for a hail mary attempt of reviving the game through appealing to nostalgia.

I genuinely think H7 isn’t unsavable. It is just kind of neglected. Those of us who still play have kind of managed to stabilize the state of the Legion. We had a few active societies working/playing together. We had a few plots going, and still managed to host some events. We just needed some tweaking of mechanics to make the game balanced around the lower player count. We needed a few more people to stick around, and be willing to get out there into town every so often. But it would seem that the opinions of those still investing in/playing the game is not worth much when weighed against those who do not play it anymore.

[Evermore]

“The biggest dropoff was actually a month or two before the Wild Hunt, around when I started phasing out of play.” That’s actually interesting. I was of belief that the Hunt was the main detractor. That does sway my opinion of it slightly, and actually helps understand the other factors that caused either quick burn-out or just general disinterest in the continuation of this cycle. I came in around early December, I want to say, and was away for Christmas to come back about 1.5 month later, late January. By that time, player count had significantly dropped from what I previously saw on the Who list. And a lot of conversation was going on about the Hunt, so I guess that biased my perception of it.

Also, to elaborate on what I don’t like about the Wild Hunt currently is that it doesn’t seem to work with the current amount of players. The first Hunt I was hit by pretty much swept everyone excl 2-3 people. If it hits again come August, it’s likely going to grab every character again, safe for one or two. I am not against the idea of a system existing to prevent a game from becoming too top-heavy. One of my issues with a MU* I played before Haven was how it had also reached a state where just about everyone walking around kind of ended up being this master-of-all bundle of bloat, and little was required to maintain such a position in the game’s power balance. In an ideal state, with the RPXP and Karma bonuses later introduced, and enough people around to actively engage in encounters and plots, the loss of the Hunt could probably be regained within that first month. The last time that happened, it was a different story.

Appreciate your input/corrections, Crayon – genuinely.

[Evermore]

It’s quite a derail from the actual topic, too. Let’s focus on that. I’m quite interested to see more takes on the implementation of AI. I’ve received it quite positively, myself, much as I understand and relate to the frustrations of an over-reliance on it.

[Evermore]

I had rose-tinted glasses. But I came in just around the time that first Wild Hunt happened, and I saw the playerbase decline rapidly. Which, of course, I couldn’t link together at first, but it’s through these forum posts and some conversations through Tells that I started to get more of a picture about the game state. And what I’m also talking about is what was generally mentioned whenever this MU* was brought up elsewhere. I didn’t join before H7 because of the heavier no-consent elements of the old Haven versions, mostly, but news of the introduction of these content warning flags along with a few other big changes made me so much more comfortable giving it a try properly. Again, I understand where you’re coming from. Just letting you know I’m not getting into exhausting and toxic OOC rants about the game with people on Discord. I’m also still enjoying the game I’m playing, I don’t know what suggested I wasn’t – My main gripe with the game is the Wild Hunt, and it still being active/a looming threat when it so clearly caused massive player loss and disinterest.

[Evermore]

I won’t say that isn’t likely also a part of the issues. But, no, I also genuinely believe the Hunt is a terrible mechanic that does little motivate/incentivize players, and mostly exists to cripple someone, stifle progress, etc. There’s plenty of posts already detailing the many things people dislike about it. Also, just so your aware, I don’t even have a single person I met in-game friended on Discord. I try and avoid that sort of stuff. I mostly learn about these things from conversations that emerged after asking questions on Newbie/through Tells. I don’t think other new players I met, like Sebastian, were getting into toxic chats on Discord with other players, too. Bit of a wild assumption if you ask me (at least when it comes to genuinely new people)

[Evermore]

Got to add, as a new player I liked how H7 was a fresh, clean sheet in a way. A major issue with Haven you’d read or hear all about is a certain element of elitist gate-keeping. Of people wanting others to play how they felt the lore/mechanics should be interpreted. Of people being able to impose veterancy and superiority over others. Of people stifling RP because they can point at a helpfile and use it to strong-arm others into ceasing their creative efforts.

It would be super overwhelming to suddenly have to, basically, start completely anew in a game setting that I’m not familiar with. I’m just one person, of course, but I would not be motivated in the slightest to stick around if I try to log on one day, only to find out H7 has been replaced with an old reboot, and I’m basically completely back at square 1.

The people still around H7 are still working on keeping the city and situation stable. Hell, we have ACTUALLY been able to fight off the Legion incursion, which nearly had every borough occupied. We would all welcome any returning/new characters with open arms. We’re all waiting for a little surge of activity to go run Lookfor events again, to run plots again, to run encounters again, to host events again. This is why I think the better path forwards is to rebuild trust, and to incentivize people to return to Haven as a whole, instead of throwing a nostalgia-flavoured piece of candy at them in hopes of gaining a brief resurgence in activity.

[Evermore]

I’m personally not that stoked on the idea of rerunning old versions. From what I’ve gathered, these all had their own major issues, and I’m already mildly annoyed at the idea of this ‘small town’ vibe where people are driving around in hyper-exclusive cars, building excessive mega-mansions, and having the playerbase split up in school/faction/townies even harder than it was right now.

Honestly, I think the main issue with H7 seems to be a main issue that I have heard others complain about being present in previous versions. Decay, a doom mechanic; basically, all these mechanics that are thrown at us, severely crippling players or punishing them for sticking around/playing a character for a while while offering just about nothing in return.

What killed H7 was that first big hunt, which sadly was around when I joined the game. I saw the playerbase hit 30+ before it came around, and when it hit, the playerbase struggled to stay around 10. It has not recovered since, and that’s because it has completely shattered trust. Trust in that the players’ time and investment is respected. Trust in that these systems are getting reworked some. Trust in that their feedback about how negatively this Wild Hunt mechanic impacts their motivation/gameplay is being received positively.

Do you genuinely believe that, if you launch Haven 8 as a reroll of some old version, it’ll do well in the long run? You could, honestly, remove the Wild Hunt mechanic of H7 right now, and offer some incentives to returning players, and work/commit to revive H7 first. Otherwise, you’re likely just setting up this new Haven for a 1-2 month period of popularity before it inevitably declines, and I’m sure with its brief revival comes the return of the same cliques, the same groups, the same power-players, that are prone to causing a lot of friction that deters other people from really committing.

[Evermore]

The same nonsense just happened in Fairefield, another Borough I’ve been working on for months. It went from a 20 vs 30% competition to 16 vs 52. You genuinely need to do something about this sh*t.

[Evermore]

Oh, also note – I contributed a Raid item to a x3 effective Borough, and this still happened. It’s incredibly, and I mean INCREDIBLY disheartening system to fight against. It’s one of the biggest examples of mechanics in this game that don’t respect your time in the slightest, and seems balanced around having an active competition of 20+ players.

– Have you considered toning this stuff down while this iterations runs its course?

– Can you do anything to ‘equalize’ the playing fields somewhat, so that us lingering players can actually try and play this aspect of the game?

– What would happen when (not if, it’s looking like a guarantee at this rate) the Legion just holds every single borough?

[Author]

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